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Graut

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1

Wednesday, 7. June 2017, 18:12

Solo party, fellowship and fluctuating numbers

When should you get the best experience?

A total of 21 Votes have been submitted.

10%

only in fellowship (2)

5%

only in regular party (1)

62%

both in regular party and fellowship (13)

5%

never (1)

19%

always (alone, party and fellowship) (4)

This topic is about what was once called solo parties and how it compares to what we have now, solo parties in the form of fellowships. I greatly preferred how it was before, seeing no reason to change it and no benefit of making solo fellowships the only way to get a stable and optimal gain. I would like to revert that change, which I believe was made on October 28th, 2015, or possibly look into if it went as planned, since it mentions nothing about removing stability from regular solo parties.






Party vs fellowship :
So as I mentioned above, solo fellowship is now the only thing that gives stable and optimal numbers (the base), while a regular party gives fluctuating numbers just as if you weren't even in a party. The benefits of having a solo party over a fellowship is that you can use "Party Auto Matching", meaning people can register their party, and others can join it easily. When it comes to solo fellowships you can't use "PAM" at all, and if you wanna join it you have to be physically near the leader, which isn't always practical. The result of that is surely that people often enough grind without being in one. Solo fellowships can have more people in it (32 vs 8 ), but that's surely not relevant very often, and in my opinion is less useful than being able to use "PAM".

Edit : As mentioned by Abacus, when in a fellowship you can't get quest credit for regular quests (non-raid ones), which is also very inconvenient.

Some other options :
So while I would like for this change to be reverted, there's also a few other solutions. One could be to always give base numbers at all times, regardless of being in a party, fellowship or alone. This would remove the need to party or having to rely on anyone else, which I suppose you could see as both positive and negative. Another could be to never give base at all, and always give fluctuating numbers. I'm not sure why you would want that though. The last option I can think of would be to allow fellowships to be registered as well, which might have some issues connected to it, but I can't think of any right now at least.

So what I would personally like is for both regular party and fellowship to give stable numbers and also as a bonus to allow fellowships to be registered in Party Auto Matching.

This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "Graut" (11. June 2017, 09:06)

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Graut

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2

Wednesday, 7. June 2017, 18:13

Since I don't know what our current developer knows about this subject's past and present I'm gonna have to assume it's basically nothing, so I added this extra piece of bonus information :

Killing while having no kind of party :
In the past as well as now, if you kill a monster you'll get SP and experience numbers that fluctuate from one kill to the other, even if it's the same type of mob. The highest possible number you get is the actual base number, but typically you'll of course get less.

Killing while in a solo fellowship :
A solo fellowship is something you'd join to kill separately and without being within experience-sharing range. The purpose is mainly due to how it increases your total gain by giving you the base number for every single kill.

Some numbers :
I did some tests on the difference between having and not having a solo fellowship, and compared numbers I got from that. As I said, the highest you'll get without one is the base, but typically it'll be below, and in my tests it went as low as 14.58% below that for experience (29.87m vs 34.23m) and 19.56% below that for skill experience (3312 vs 3960). If you take the average numbers from my tests, which is how a real grind session would be, you'd end up with 6.30% less experience and 6.78% less SP. So 0% to 100% with solo compared to 0% to 93.7% with no solo in the same amount of kills. Do that over multiple levels and the difference quickly starts to matter a whole lot.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Graut" (7. June 2017, 18:27)

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JHunter

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Wednesday, 7. June 2017, 20:16

When a game is large and has thousands and thousands of players, restriction can be a good thing. There are already many reasons for players to get online, and having some restriction can give them a reason to stay a little longer. While on the other hand, if you have a low population players don't have a lot of reasons to get online. So having restriction isn't going to give them a reason to stay longer, because it won't give them a reason to get online in the first place.

In my opinion the goal should be trying to get players to easily connect with each other so new friendships and bonds can be made. Giving players a reason to get online and make the Last Chaos experience much better. Being able to use the party registration system to easily find a solo which offers all the benefits for exp and sp will offer optimal chances for connections. Where needing a fellowship for the same benefits makes the party matching system useless to many. Likely segregating fellowship searches to guild only.

In my personal experience restriction in a low population setting should be avoided where it's not critical, even if it means giving a little more away then one would want to. I am of the opinion that not having a difference between fellowship and general parties in terms of exp and sp would be beneficial to both sides.

Edited June 8th, 1:25am


This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "JHunter" (8. June 2017, 09:25)

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Abacus

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4

Sunday, 11. June 2017, 04:53

My vote was for regular party only. I think they should have left it alone and I have no idea why they changed it. My reason is for Auto-Party Matching and the fact that some quests cannot be completed when in fellowship. Fellowship was created for the sole purpose of doing raids and when you are in a raid with players, the xp and sp is usually shared. I would agree with it being maxed (base) for both, if fellowships could be registered. Since we are mentioning that, the 'add' function in fellowships does not work and, as Graut said, the leader must be able to click the player to add them and this is not always very practical.

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Surestrike

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5

Sunday, 11. June 2017, 07:02

I think that the old combat party should reign exp wise. It was perfect for group grinding.

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Graut

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6

Sunday, 11. June 2017, 08:59

My vote was for regular party only. I think they should have left it alone and I have no idea why they changed it.

I'm pretty sure we got stable numbers in fellowship before too though, but in my opinion having stable only in party is better than only in fellowship, as we have now. In that case the only place you'd "suffer" would be when you need a fellowship, which is in raids, but from 0 to 185 you're gonna spend more time outside them than in, so in my opinion that still would've been a better option than what we have now. I'd prefer both party and fellowship, or if we were to go totally crazy maybe even the 5th option (always), which is like a case of freedom versus anti-socialness.

You also brought up a good point I forgot about, which was about quest credit. I'm sure that could be directly changed though, making it possible to get regular quest credit while in a fellowship, but yeah, that's another great reason why I think solo fellowship is worse. I see someone voted for "only in fellowship" though, which makes me curious and wonder if there's a benefit I haven't thought of.

I think that the old combat party should reign exp wise. It was perfect for group grinding.

Well sure, but what does that have to do with solo parties? As stated, this topic is about solo parties and in what form, if any, should you get the stable base numbers as opposed to fluctuating ones. Before you got a solo party, now it's in fellowship only. Was this a good change? I fell it wasn't.
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divataroza

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7

Tuesday, 13. June 2017, 04:09

The mobs hit the same regardless if you are alone, in a party or in a fello.
So imho they should give the same xp and sp regardless if you are alone, in a party or in a fello.

AP or not AP? (Now IC or not IC?) That is the question...
It is hard to fight armed with that when your opponent is armed like this:
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Fulminar

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8

Tuesday, 13. June 2017, 09:50

Just wanted to add:

The changes from those patch notes are more:

Previously this gave you stable numbers in terms of EXP and SP. Regardless if party members were within radar. Now, the exp / SP you gain is dependant on the party members within your radar. For example: if your party has 5 people in it. you will get more for each one of those persons which is within your radar.
If all 5 people are next to you you will get the max SP / EXP possible. If no one is within your radar, then the numbers will be fluctuating a lot.
This change was implemented and works as intended.

A suggestion however to add like a PAM for fellowships, or add players to fellowships without the need to be near them might be a good idea since i know how frustrating that can be :)

Either way if you still think something isnt right with the party exp please provide us proper testing data and numbers and we can have it double checked.

Fulminar
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Graut

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9

Tuesday, 13. June 2017, 17:40

I'm aware there were more to those patch notes than what I referenced, but surely it wasn't necessary to remove the solo stability just to add that mechanic.

Also, if I'm understanding you right then you seem to suggest that it's fine, or maybe even more logical, that solos are done with fellowships as opposed to with regular parties. Meaning, fellowship would be for raid and solos while regular party would be for whatever is left. Because you're suggesting something that is to make the current ways of soloing more practical, which involves fellowships, instead of making soloing more logical, and how it used to be. At least in my mind. Because it's all right there and ready, the only thing missing is the stability.

If I remember right, I'm pretty sure I was involved in discussion that involved promoting party play (either here or at Aeria) and actually working together, so I'm fine with the devs' attempt at doing that with the change you mentioned. But you can promote party play with benefits while still having a practical solo party in the same package, instead of penalizing solo party with the impracticability of a fellowship.

I obviously don't oppose to making fellowship easier to deal with, since I mentioned the PAM thing in earlier posts, but I don't agree with that being the logical single change. First and foremost stability in regular solo parties, then whatever feature and practical change that comes after that is great. That would not only include the things you mentioned, but also quest credit while in fellowship. Again, one single change would fix all of this, and that change is not PAM for fellowship.

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Abacus

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10

Thursday, 15. June 2017, 05:45

Summary: I agree with Graut. Change it back. It was not broken, so why was it 'fixed'?

A bunch of stuff... (paraphrased)
This is all well and good, but given that the incentive is to be the best, hardest-hitting, fast-killing machine of a character that we can be, when will anyone else ever be on the radar when in party (not counting raid)? Should I try and get 5 other people to follow me around in my radar while I decimate things?

The entire explanation of the patch for 'number of players in your radar' sounds suspiciously like the old combat party of the regular type. As I said before, I cannot understand the change. Regular parties for players of any level should get max xp/sp for their kills when in different locations. Combat parties (within the proper level range) should get a bonus for being near each other. And fellowships should share the xp equally, since their goal is to meet an objective which will give rise to a better bonus than the xp from killing monsters. As it was.
No need for fellowship PAM because a fellowship should be organized BEFORE doing the intended raid (but please do fix the 'add' button, so we can add players by their name). So, in short, I am for changing it back to the way it was.

Edit: Added this last bit--
Also, I do not need random fellowship leaders inspecting my business. If we are organizing a raid, it makes sense that they can see if a potential member will contribute to the group, but otherwise it is unnecessary. The party system was fine before and should be changed back. If you want to add more content and/or a new party type to increase party play, fine, but this change made it more complicated for players and added no real benefit. Hence my vote for regular party only.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Abacus" (15. June 2017, 06:11)

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Vilya

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Monday, 15. January 2018, 19:35

Hello Graut,

This section is for suggestion which the users can either agree with or disagree with. While I do understand the point of this poll, it is not in line with what we are trying to do in this section. There if a nifty FAQ in the top portion along with a description of how to properly use this forum section.

Feel free to remake your topic using the Agree/Disagree poll choices for a singular issue. If you feel this is a bug, or should be investigated as such, please message it to a team member as per the posted forum rules.

Thank you.

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