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  • "SpecialistUK" started this thread

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1

Wednesday, 27. January 2016, 15:28

Rune of protection seems to mess with upgrade rates

Yesterday I used 18 deep blue rune of protections trying to get some extra +'s on a +15 weapon and not one of them gave me +1, every single one was a fail and that was supposedly on 200% upgrade rate. There is obviously something wrong here, does this sound about right for a 599ic item on 200% upgrade?

Interestingly I made 3 pieces of armour +16 (from +15) without runes of protection, 2 breaks, 3 successes.

Thoughts?

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Wednesday, 27. January 2016, 15:33

Runes of protection have literally nothing to do with upgrade success. Their sole purpose is to prevent breakages. They do not alter the success rate at all in any way with or without an upgrade event.

Edit: ONLY the rate of success is turned up by 100% with the 200% upgrade event. The rates of no change, -1 and breaks remains the same regardless. They still serve the purpose of your items not breaking in 200%, as it is still a possibility of this occurrence.


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  • "SpecialistUK" started this thread

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3

Wednesday, 27. January 2016, 15:45

Out of 5 attempts without runes I had 3 successes. With runes 18 attempts got me absolutely 0 successes.

Also if you up the rates of success, by proportion the rates of failure go down since they are not independent events.

It is obvious to me that something has gone wrong, 0/18 and 3/5 cannot be classed as the same success rate, not even close.

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Wednesday, 27. January 2016, 15:46

They are in fact independent of event. The rates of fail, no change and break remain the same no matter the success rate increase. You expect the same chance from 15-20 as you do 1-10? Rates change the higher your upgrade value on your item. It has always been this way.


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  • "SpecialistUK" started this thread

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5

Wednesday, 27. January 2016, 15:51

They are not independent events, I don't want to wave my maths degree about here but they are all linked.

If you have an increased chance of success, logically you have a decreased chance of failure. It's probability.

If on 100% upgrade you get 1/4 successes then on 200% upgrade you should get 2/4.

and "failures" would be 3/4 and 2/4 respectively. They are dependent events.

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Wednesday, 27. January 2016, 15:52

They were all going from +15 I said that in my original post

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ANGEL.

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Wednesday, 27. January 2016, 19:05

18 fails in a row is something very common for these runes. Its the way how they r supposed to work.
Fyi u can use way more runes without upgrade event and be sure ull see more than 18 fails in a row so u had ur increased change during the event.
Its the way how upgrading items work, nothing to do with ur bad luck.


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Wednesday, 27. January 2016, 19:15

As Vilya has stated they are not supposed to alter the upgrade rate, if you read the entire thread I clearly state that I tested this without the runes and achieved significantly different results.

3/5 as oppose to 0/18 successes tells me that they do change upgrade rates, even if they aren't supposed to.

It is not my complaint that I have been unlucky, but rather that they do infact change the upgrade rate when they are not supposed to.

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Wednesday, 27. January 2016, 19:18

Also to point out that I regularly use upgrade events to upgrade beyond +15 without runes and 3/5 is not just a one off.

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Bran

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Wednesday, 27. January 2016, 19:44

Yesterday I used 18 deep blue rune of protections trying to get some extra +'s on a +15 weapon and not one of them gave me +1, every single one was a fail and that was supposedly on 200% upgrade rate. There is obviously something wrong here, does this sound about right for a 599ic item on 200% upgrade?

Interestingly I made 3 pieces of armour +16 (from +15) without runes of protection, 2 breaks, 3 successes.


Thoughts?


Title of this long upgrade novel that is coming up: My thoughts about upgrading past +15 using deep blue rune of protection
Author: Bran


Let me ask you one itsy bitsy question: you say you make +15 easy
That is thanks to Chaos Runes which drop in game and can get your gear to +12 so you can always give it a try and upgrade ur items from +12 to +15, eventually, after few tries, you will get a +2 or +3
So.... :D:D:D (I love this part)
Back before we had no Chaos runes and no chance of upgrading past +15, it was the same situation, getting to +10 was easy, from +10 to +15, you needed huuuuuuuuge luck to make +15 using alooooot of ROP2 (the old rop2 tht worked from +10 to +15)
Well, +15 is cool for me, for most I believe, now, there are those like you who want more, who can afford it... ;) , you have 2 choices,( ONE) use master stones to +17 which guarantee ur success to +17, have +17 stuff, (maybe use +20ms or +25 ms to make it +19) use finest to +20 and then play with Gold RoP and devil runes to +24 or 25 if u have a choice, now, tell me one thing, how many armor and weps would you have +20 on the market if you had two devil runes be successful with deep blue rop and they gave, lets say +2 and +3, which would make it +20. Not everyone can have that luck, only very few, others need to spend more resources. Now, everyone have their rituals of upgrading stuff, i will give you one hint, I never upgrade on a subserver with many people on it (like I5). Some upgrade with armor and accs stripped off, some with armor and accs and wep equipped. There are many rituals :D You only stated here, your statistics, you never said, where did you upgrade, how did you upgrade, did you for example run over a bridge and clicked upgrade. :rolleyes: Idk how long you play LC :| But bruh, when you got bad luck like that, ask around how others upgrade and make their stuff +ed to the desired +. :D


(TWO) the second choice of upgrading is with rop and runes, the one you tried :D you cant just stand in the middle of i5 and just pop it on the stuff you need +ed :thumbup:


edit: example of how things work in this game sometimes, on my exrogue, I wanted 7 sockets on my pants, I opened 7 on shirt and gloves using 1 mill scroll from NPC, it was maybe within 50 socket resets. On pants, I used around 110 socket resets, and couldn't get 7 sockets. I bought 4 legendary scrolls like 500-600m ea back then, and I got 7 sockets on pants from 3rd try.

point of this mini story is, you want high +ed gear that will be tradeable, this is a game and a business in the same time, making tradeable highquality stuff wont be made from 18 deep blue runes, however, you have more choices, that is, use master stones and just accept this is the gear you will have stuck in inventory, but you will have the desired + you want. Allowing easy and very nice rates to make high +ed gear that will be tradeable is bad for business, thats why you need to invest alot in it to make it, or just buy already high +ed gear tht is lyin around from era of makind when master stones didnt bind stuff, you will notice its cheaper to just buy +25-+28 piece for 30-40b instead of wastin 18 deep blues to make +20 , or use master stones :whistling:

edit number 2: since you used devil runes, did it ever occur to you, devil rune has these options: Success (+ 1), Success (+ 2), Success (+ 3), Failure (object is destroyed)
now imagine how tricky the upgrade rates are if devil rune has alot of these posibilities, you didn't wanna brag with your math degree
(its funny this rune is called "devil" rune :D devil really has his hands in his runes, dat irony... )
Did you ever think of using Purified rune ore which has these posibilities: Success (+ 1), Failure (object is destroyed)

Now, I am not trolling you, but go do some math, you dont know the exact percentage of upgrade rates, but you can imagine what has more chance of +1 during upgrade event ;)
And I am really done explaining now xD I give up, if you still don't understand, idk what to tell you 8o
Check what not innocent and cuddly one wrote:
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This post has been edited 4 times, last edit by "Bran" (27. January 2016, 20:18)

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  • "SpecialistUK" started this thread

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Wednesday, 27. January 2016, 20:03

I was on i6 and there was no one there. When I say I had 18 fails in a row I only tried 18, at no point did I receive a +1, all failed. At this point I stopped because at 599 ic or 1 billion in-game gold each its absolute robbery. I also don't use chaos runes, DRO on its own is absolutely fine if you have more than one of each item and those upgrade rates are not being disputed but the rates when using Runes.

Deep Blue Runes of protection are not supposed to alter the upgrade rates but they do. Every upgrade event I use DRO to make weapons and armour over +15 and I have never had 18 fail in a row, never.

Thanks for the tips mate, I won't use Deep Blue ROP in future (unless they are fixed). The item clearly does not work as it should and somehow 0/18 as oppose to 3/5 doesn't seem to be enough proof.

P.S: I also remember a thread about this a couple of months ago but it seems to have disappeared, I'd just like it looked at that is all.

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Wednesday, 27. January 2016, 20:41

To reply to your edits Bran, it is basic probability that if upgrade success rates go up then there will be less chance of failure. I do not need to know the exact upgrade rates to tell you how it works. I teach maths at college level, I do this stuff every day.

Example : suppose its 50% success 50% failure and its a 200% upgrade event then its 100% success and 50% failure according to vilya and it doesn't take a genius to figure out that you cannot have 150% total. It would be 66.66666% and 33.333333% because that is just how percentages work.

I tried some purified runes also, same outcome. But regardless Deep Blue ROP should not alter upgrade rates but they do. I have stated this over and over.

You talk about a business but a business also has a duty to provide what it has advertised and again, as vilya has stated, they should not alter upgrade rates. I should not have to bound my gear because other items they sell don't work.

I'm not going off topic again, the fact is they do not work properly and I would like it looked in to. Thanks.

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Wednesday, 27. January 2016, 20:59

To be honest it's mostly luck.
I used Deep Blue runes and got three +1's the other day during an upgrade event, one after another, however I have also used over 50 before with event and got two upgrades, with the rest as failures (generally loads of failures then an upgrade then a load more failures then another upgrade), I've also used over 50before without the event with no successes.

None of the upgrading materials work great, and unfortunately it's just one of those things where some days you're lucky and some days you're not. I have suggested upgrade item rate changes before a long time ago, and at that time I used all master stones with even worse luck.

Upgrade Material Enhancement Rates this was my thread, and I used over £140 worth of upgrading items.

EzeEle 185 True Elementalist - EzeAssasin 16x Ex-Assassin - EzeArcher 16x Archer - EzeNS 16x NightShadow

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This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "ExcallabuR" (27. January 2016, 21:03)

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Wednesday, 27. January 2016, 21:08

Its just the second I stopped using Deep Blue ROP I started getting successes, I want it looked in to at least. Can't afford enough ROP to test it myself. Brown ROP work fine I know that much, although on upgrade events I've never had under +10 break anyway.

I absolutely agree the success rates need looking at, infact its the same for jewel melding rates, its impossible without an event....shouldn't have to have an 800% event to have a chance.

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Wednesday, 27. January 2016, 21:25


Example : suppose its 50% success 50% failure and its a 200% upgrade event then its 100% success and 50% failure according to vilya and it doesn't take a genius to figure out that you cannot have 150% total. It would be 66.66666% and 33.333333% because that is just how percentages work.

I tried some purified runes also, same outcome. But regardless Deep Blue ROP should not alter upgrade rates but they do. I have stated this over and over.

You talk about a business but a business also has a duty to provide what it has advertised and again, as vilya has stated, they should not alter upgrade rates. I should not have to bound my gear because other items they sell don't work.

I'm not going off topic again, the fact is they do not work properly and I would like it looked in to. Thanks.


The % of working, i think are 20% success and 80% failure with devil and 30% success and 70% failure with purified... With upgrade events i remember that using ROP its delete the upgrade's bonus...
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Wednesday, 27. January 2016, 22:14

it doesn't take a genius to figure out that you cannot have 150% total.
I run an 800% Jewel Event, you can in fact have over 100% percentages if some of them are static and unchanging and you alter one of them.
Each Chance has the potential to be at 100% in and of itself, they are independent of one another even being within the same system.


For instance, let's say each chance is @ 25% (for sake of this example only)
25% Success
25% No change
25% -1
25% Break

200% upgrade will make it:
50% Success
25% No Change (unchanging)
25% -1 (unchanging)
25% Break (unchanging)

In programming, the programmer sets the parameters of what is lowest and highest available. It can be 100%, 200% or even 1, 000,000,000% at the apex.

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Wednesday, 27. January 2016, 22:33

Yes and I understand what you are saying but you then standardise all those. By increasing one, when you standardise it to a 100% total then the others decrease. 50 out of 125 is standardised to 40%.

This has become a maths lesson xD can you please just agree to look into this for some of the players that have doubts? Next upgrade event it just needs checking with HS, DRO and PRO its all I'm asking because I'm not the only one that thinks this.

(please note: I've not asked for any refunds or anything I just think it needs looking at)

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Wednesday, 27. January 2016, 22:35

We have been through this whole "look at it" conversation before and we were told it is working as the developers intended them to work. If you want RoPs with a better rate of success, Blue Runes would be it... Deep Blues were made this way purposefully.


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Thursday, 28. January 2016, 08:46

Different type of gear may have different chances of upgrade. Weapons upgrading could be harder than armor upgrading. Even for armor, there are some ppl saying that some pieces, like gloves, or helm, are more difficult, they tend to break more often. Also, armor like the 30-32 or 60-62 sets that you get for free, tend to break.
From what I observed, upgrading with runes has very low chances, in general, but sometimes, the successes can arrive in bursts, which is good. If you get lucky.
Still, from observing the comments on this subject, it seems that upgrading from 15 to 20 is more difficult than upgrading from 20 to 25. Not only because Deep Blue Runes are more expensive than Golden ones. And that, if true, is a bit strange.

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pruss

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Thursday, 28. January 2016, 09:56

I haven't tried the deep blue rops myself so far, but i used gold rops at a 200% upgrade event and made +3 from a DRO and gold rop after maybe 10 attempts. If i can't get my deep blues sold i will try my luck at next event.

But i suspect, no matter what the devs might say, that these protection items sometimes mess up the sucess-rate. I had the same experience with Jewel protection scrolls.

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