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droidkid

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Messages: 6

Date d'inscription: 30/10/2018

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21

12 July 2019 18:52

There's so many things wrong with this game that even trying to re-balance would probably mess something else up. There's also so many other things they could try to implement to make this game new player friendly but my hope for this has been long gone.

ScreaM
185 Ex-Ranger
TheDescendents

Genjutsu
185 Witch
TheDescendents
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currykaran2

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Messages: 62

Date d'inscription: 14/07/2017

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22

13 July 2019 0:58

No. The game has always been unbalanced. IMO, the only time you see posts like this are from people I never heard of, claiming the classes are broken, just because they can't play them and kill every single person in game.

With Elephants and jewels...the game will never be balanced unless every one has the same thing, THEN, and only IF they know how to play the class.


~AnyBodyKilla/Mr.Funktastik/Oberline/[Da3rdJuggalo(Katar/Cariea servers)]
Come into the arena and I'll show you why it's so unbalanced.I didn't make this post cause I get my ass kicked, I made this post cause it takes people 2-3 years to stand a chance in arena because no one is able to get armor like I have unless they spend hundreds of dollars and yet that still isn't sufficient unless they're playing an ex-ranger.

I worry about any players having any input into balancing. Mainly because balancing means different things to different people and as has been previously point out there is a great deal of bias in the community as to what they think is balance. Does the whole pvp system need to be reworked? Yes definitely but, there is soooo much that has to be taken into account. I just don't trust the community to see the big picture at this point as everyone will only look at their world.
Bias can be sorted when the balance is occurring. It is not hard to tell when a suggestion is bias or not when there is a poll on it. Get comments on the changes, good and bad, and then declare them live. It is not hard to start a project, they just need to take the initiative.
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Surestrike

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Messages: 411

Date d'inscription: 10/07/2015

Lieu: Texas

Profession: Safety specialist

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23

13 July 2019 2:50

I am ok with Gamingo making changes THEY decide on and letting us to testing...like they do now. The problem with player input is you probably could not get 2 people to agree in the post on how the game needs to be changed. it would be a never ending polarizing struggle with everyone's definition of balance. This is what I mean by I don't trust the players to be making these decisions. I bet you could hardly get 3 people in the post to agree on how things should be changed. I know I don't agree with any other opinions of this subject I have heard so far and I am sure very few would agree with my opinion on this.

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betavich.

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Messages: 17

Date d'inscription: 15/07/2015

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24

14 July 2019 19:48

clearly the wizard should be the strongest ... : )

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Wise

Débutant

Messages: 18

Date d'inscription: 22/05/2018

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25

15 July 2019 0:47

the way people respond as u above.. is the people who destroy the thoughts on haveing anything worked on to get fixed.
sorry but it happend back in the old pool's aswell.. and i am really tired of this game as this state.. im back atm, from about 1 year long break.
and in that time NOTHING has happend to make anything better but just added more ic stuff and even afinity items to that wierdo sale there is.. dont remember name of tit they call it something.. "doesnt even matter" people are just leaveing the game its all there is to it as there is plenty of other games out there.. and i woulden mind to give recomendations to other games with way better pvp and fights then here.. basicly every game has better allso pve..
elebuff and element stages are so wrong worked out.. and could be fixxed easy ive suggested elebuff to be 25-50 75% buffs instead thats still an amazeing boost.. but yea.. people dident like that cause ohh noooo… cant 1shot grind no more?!?!?!? lol.. ever tryed other games or this befor element stage2 and elebuff?? without 100% cd??
well back then… i swear this game where top notch. really awsome and could get every 1 i asked to like it.. but yea.. hornestly here now.. GF quit cause she lost all her stuff due to move to gamigo.. brothers quit do to changes further back cant even remember exactly i think it where the release of 17x sets with eva and hr.. sorta ruind the good pvp and more fun fights.. and so on with real life friends i showed this game. and yea… im not far from leaveing for good myself.. but now im surely done with negative people here on forums.. suit yourself and GL. i made plenty of idea's to get this here game good in the past and did a pretty good job at getting people to try it. but as it is now Theres no point because no one who havent played it allready will never get to like this game as it has no PVE no PVP and KVK.. simply fell like gamigo gave it all up and rather tryed to buy out all the licens to become owner of the game instead of run the game. is that what killed it?

anyways just some thoughts and thanks to karan for trying.. but im sour when im tired and just step in the door from 12 hours work shift at night so bare with me and all my typo's.
Blame me, of course it's all my fault!
Every character had their weak and strong features.
How the ... are you going to fix it NOW,
with all the items that are implemented into the game?
You need to be almost an mathematician genius to fix it all afterwards!
Real, reasonable question is - are WE ALL willing to lose everything?

Ce message a été modifié 1 fois. Dernière modification par "Wise" (%15/%07/%2019, 12:55am)

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currykaran2

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Messages: 62

Date d'inscription: 14/07/2017

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26

15 July 2019 2:49

Blame me, of course it's all my fault!
Every character had their weak and strong features.
How the ... are you going to fix it NOW,
with all the items that are implemented into the game?
You need to be almost an mathematician genius to fix it all afterwards!
Real, reasonable question is - are WE ALL willing to lose everything?
Actually, I've seen bigger games get re-balanced within weeks, and properly without ruining the current stature of items. And before anyone says they have bigger development teams... the work required was just as much.

It's doable, it just needs to be done.

Ce message a été modifié 1 fois. Dernière modification par "Vilya" (%20/%07/%2019, 3:19am) pour le motif suivant : Removed quote tree.

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Surestrike

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Messages: 411

Date d'inscription: 10/07/2015

Lieu: Texas

Profession: Safety specialist

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27

15 July 2019 4:06

Oh yes it is doable but, whose version of balance are we going to get? This is my number one fear of re-balancing getting someones version of re-balancing that makes it a cookie cutter toon game.

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currykaran2

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Messages: 62

Date d'inscription: 14/07/2017

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28

15 July 2019 6:51

Oh yes it is doable but, whose version of balance are we going to get? This is my number one fear of re-balancing getting someones version of re-balancing that makes it a cookie cutter toon game.
A rebalance does not conclude with one person's opinion. That's the purpose of it. Get everyone's opinion, get a poll going on each change. Regardless, the end will result in a better outcome than what we currently have.
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Surestrike

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Messages: 411

Date d'inscription: 10/07/2015

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29

16 July 2019 4:54

A rebalance does not conclude with one person's opinion. That's the purpose of it. Get everyone's opinion, get a poll going on each change. Regardless, the end will result in a better outcome than what we currently have.

Good luck getting anyone to agree...
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currykaran2

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Messages: 62

Date d'inscription: 14/07/2017

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30

16 July 2019 18:30


Good luck getting anyone to agree...
Not with that attitude

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unavailable

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Messages: 163

Date d'inscription: 14/01/2015

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31

16 July 2019 19:09

A rebalance does not conclude with one person's opinion. That's the purpose of it. Get everyone's opinion, get a poll going on each change. Regardless, the end will result in a better outcome than what we currently have.


Proper balancing should not include anyones opinion, because those opinions will never be objective and never look at the big picture.
to get a proper balance devs need to crate and come up with a concept, an idea, a plan. Based on that they will prepare the changes, a patch, do their testing and QA and it will be free for players to test.

then players can provide feedback, feedback on a system that was created with an objective view, and then the devs can decide whether based on the feedback provided any changes / adjustments should be made. Letting players give suggestions , opinions on something before there is any concept is a waste of time.
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currykaran2

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Messages: 62

Date d'inscription: 14/07/2017

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32

16 July 2019 20:02


Proper balancing should not include anyones opinion, because those opinions will never be objective and never look at the big picture.
to get a proper balance devs need to crate and come up with a concept, an idea, a plan. Based on that they will prepare the changes, a patch, do their testing and QA and it will be free for players to test.

then players can provide feedback, feedback on a system that was created with an objective view, and then the devs can decide whether based on the feedback provided any changes / adjustments should be made. Letting players give suggestions , opinions on something before there is any concept is a waste of time.
Actually, that's statistically false. Higher scale games, more often have balances done based on player opinions. Players say "This weapon hits too hard", it is looked into, and it is altered. Then the changes are released into a beta server where the players have a chance to test the chances, and then it is commented upon. If the reaction is majority-positive, it is implemented into the live server.

Not too long ago, we were informed that the Developers do not have an understanding of the "base" because it is outdated. And that's after 5+ years. I just don't think the players who still play feel comfortable having the developers make the decisions at this point. Especially considering, the biggest update towards balancing actually made the combat system much worse than it originally was when they obtained it. So sure, maybe it was a good change just gone wrong... but that shows that the developers didn't consider the reaction.

The objective is not for players to tell developers what to change, the objective is to get player's opinion on what they believe is the cause of this problem, because I promise you the players have a much higher chance of knowing the root of problem than the developers.

Ce message a été modifié 1 fois. Dernière modification par "Vilya" (%20/%07/%2019, 3:16am) pour le motif suivant : Removed quote tree.

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Wise

Débutant

Messages: 18

Date d'inscription: 22/05/2018

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33

16 July 2019 20:05

Not with that attitude
When someone else does not agree with ones opinion,
then they accuse their behaviour as an excuse towards them,
that's kinda pathetic and yeah i mean you both "currykaran2",
and "The1AndOnly"!

Back to topic: READ MY PREVIOUS POST again and again and again,
from the begging to the very end!

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currykaran2

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Messages: 62

Date d'inscription: 14/07/2017

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34

16 July 2019 20:11

When someone else does not agree with ones opinion,
then they accuse their behaviour as an excuse towards them,
that's kinda pathetic and yeah i mean you both "currykaran2",
and "The1AndOnly"!

Back to topic: READ MY PREVIOUS POST again and again and again,
from the begging to the very end!
I replied to your previous post because it made very little sense, so I thought I cleared it up for you. And no one really attacked you.

Simply saying "it can't be done" or "it's too much work" or "there's no right way to do it" is the basis of why nothing is being done.
Nothing can be done until it is started. And nothing can get started until at least the majority believe something needs done.

And if you honestly believe nothing needs done... then you must not playing the same game. And call that an opinion, but the lack of players helps with the confirmation.

Ce message a été modifié 1 fois. Dernière modification par "Vilya" (%20/%07/%2019, 3:13am) pour le motif suivant : Removed quote tree.

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Wise

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Messages: 18

Date d'inscription: 22/05/2018

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35

16 July 2019 20:35

I replied to your previous post because it made very little sense, so I thought I cleared it up for you. And no one really attacked you.

Simply saying "it can't be done" or "it's too much work" or "there's no right way to do it" is the basis of why nothing is being done.
Nothing can be done until it is started. And nothing can get started until at least the majority believe something needs done.

And if you honestly believe nothing needs done... then you must not playing the same game. And call that an opinion, but the lack of players helps with the confirmation.
Yes, only your opinion matters and it's golden?!
Twisting my words without understanding what I really meant,
tells me, you are just another troll,
who want's to get picky on other people opinions.

Ce message a été modifié 1 fois. Dernière modification par "Vilya" (%20/%07/%2019, 3:12am) pour le motif suivant : Removed quote tree.

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currykaran2

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Messages: 62

Date d'inscription: 14/07/2017

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36

16 July 2019 20:45

Yes, only your opinion matters and it's golden?!
Twisting my words without understanding what I really meant,
tells me, you are just another troll,
who want's to get picky on other people opinions.
Actually your "previous post" that you were referring to said "blame me?" because The1AndOnly pointed out that saying

"Every character had their weak and strong features.
How the ... are you going to fix it NOW,
with all the items that are implemented into the game?
You need to be almost an mathematician genius to fix it all afterwards!
Real, reasonable question is - are WE ALL willing to lose everything?"


is a bad attitude to have when attempting to get something fixed. And I'm sorry, but you don't think that saying "IT CANT BE FIXED", is not one of the reasons why it isn't getting fixed?
A game of this size doesn't require specialists in their skills to fix issues, especially when it comes to balancing calculations, and that's not my opinion, that's a fact because I've worked on projects with similar required changes. And I'm sure we'd all like to believe the developers are professionals at what they do, reason why they're hired by Gamigo.


And "Twisting of your words" would imply I tried to kill the message you were implying, and after rereading what you wrote, I'm pretty sure your message was very clear, so if I did twist your words, I apologize.


You don't have to agree with me, but every time I do post or reply, I do try to provide reasoning behind it, so if you don't believe it is sufficient, I apologize.


Everyone here agrees that something broken. The only reason that has been thoroughly fought was "It is bias to get player opinion", and I've attempted my best to explain why that has very little to do with why that is not a good reason why a balance should not occur.

Ce message a été modifié 1 fois. Dernière modification par "Vilya" (%20/%07/%2019, 3:10am) pour le motif suivant : Removed quote tree.

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unavailable

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Messages: 163

Date d'inscription: 14/01/2015

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37

16 July 2019 21:07

Actually, that's statistically false. Higher scale games, more often have balances done based on player opinions. Players say "This weapon hits too hard", it is looked into, and it is altered. Then the changes are released into a beta server where the players have a chance to test the chances, and then it is commented upon. If the reaction is majority-positive, it is implemented into the live server.


The issue here is its not "a weapon hits too hard", its not a skill hitting to hard...its the entire system as a whole that's the issue, so looking into individual skills or classes and making minor adjustments and making patch after patch just for players to give it a test run is a complete waste of time and resources.
A good new concept, worked out in detail will provide much better benefits and will actually make a difference.

Not too long ago, we were informed that the Developers do not have an understanding of the "base" because it is outdated. And that's after 5+ years. I just don't think the players who still play feel comfortable having the developers make the decisions at this point. Especially considering, the biggest update towards balancing actually made the combat system much worse than it originally was when they obtained it. So sure, maybe it was a good change just gone wrong... but that shows that the developers didn't consider the reaction.


that was in relation to the games sourcecode not the games mechanics. Also they did not make any changes towards balancing, the last change done for that was the cooldown change and elemental system which both came from barunson still and not gamigo.

so once again, there is zero sense into adjusting any skills, attacks, weapons...basically anything, if the entire concept / idea / system is completely broken.
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currykaran2

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Messages: 62

Date d'inscription: 14/07/2017

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38

19 July 2019 19:00



The issue here is its not "a weapon hits too hard", its not a skill hitting to hard...its the entire system as a whole that's the issue, so looking into individual skills or classes and making minor adjustments and making patch after patch just for players to give it a test run is a complete waste of time and resources.
A good new concept, worked out in detail will provide much better benefits and will actually make a difference.

that was in relation to the games sourcecode not the games mechanics. Also they did not make any changes towards balancing, the last change done for that was the cooldown change and elemental system which both came from barunson still and not gamigo.

so once again, there is zero sense into adjusting any skills, attacks, weapons...basically anything, if the entire concept / idea / system is completely broken.
I don't see an issue with the concept... The elemental system is used in many games, and is done so successfully. It usually has a high learning curve, but is still very efficient in what it's designed to do. With that said, it's simply not designed properly in this game. Last I remember testing the elemental system, the Element vs Damage simply did not make sense, it was not consistent with what it was designed to do. Leading players to think that some elements are better for you when in reality they're simply not.

And sure, it takes time and resources to adjust certain things, but that's the entire point of a test server. There are MANY major issues needing tackling, along with that you could implement and test minor fixes towards combat. For example:
- Attempt a fix for the crashing issue, along with it, implement some changes to a character.
- Ask players to test both and give their point of view on it. If players disagree with it, ask why they believe certain things should not be the way they are.

Redoing the entire combat system is a far more scary thing than adjusting the current combat. There is a MUCH higher chance of wasting time and resources designing a new concept that player MAY or MAY NOT like... than there is adjusting the current one.

Ce message a été modifié 1 fois. Dernière modification par "Vilya" (%20/%07/%2019, 3:07am) pour le motif suivant : Removed quote tree.

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unavailable

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Messages: 163

Date d'inscription: 14/01/2015

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39

19 July 2019 19:45

I don't see an issue with the concept... The elemental system is used in many games, and is done so successfully. It usually has a high learning curve, but is still very efficient in what it's designed to do. With that said, it's simply not designed properly in this game. Last I remember testing the elemental system, the Element vs Damage simply did not make sense, it was not consistent with what it was designed to do. Leading players to think that some elements are better for you when in reality they're simply not.


I am not saying that an elemental system in itself is bad, its just the way it is in Last chaos is completely garbage and unfinished.

And sure, it takes time and resources to adjust certain things, but that's the entire point of a test server. There are MANY major issues needing tackling, along with that you could implement and test minor fixes towards combat. For example:
- Attempt a fix for the crashing issue, along with it, implement some changes to a character.
- Ask players to test both and give their point of view on it. If players disagree with it, ask why they believe certain things should not be the way they are.


Making adjustments to a character is pointless if the entire system is bad. If they decide to stick with the elemental system they need to make sure that is fixed and working before they can do anything to characters, weapons, skills.
To give you an example: skills should NEVER change the element of an oponent. Elemental gem in the weapon should dictate what elemental you character uses, then it needs different scaling with hits, and skills because for skills there is curently 0 scaling.
All of the mobs need to have elemental information. Elemental needs to be obtainable from level 30 up at most.

Redoing the entire combat system is a far more scary thing than adjusting the current combat. There is a MUCH higher chance of wasting time and resources designing a new concept that player MAY or MAY NOT like... than there is adjusting the current one.


Yes it may be scary, but it has to be done, there is no way around it. and if you think of it logically, anything they do, cant make it worse than what it is now xD
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Vilya

Community Manager (en/es/it/pl/ru)

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Messages: 8,510

Date d'inscription: 03/09/2014

Lieu: USA

Profession: Last Chaos Community Manager

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20 July 2019 3:06

Citation

3. Clarity of threads and posts
To ensure, that the forum is as informative a possible, you need to follow those guidelines before creating threads and posts.
...
3.4 You are just allowed to quote the statement you are directly referring to.
This means the quoting must be only for the EXACT message you are quoting without the massive quote trees you guys are doing. I will fix them this time, next time the posts will simply be removed in their entirety with warnings issued.

If anyone is confused as to the rules, this forum section houses them. I encourage them to be read and if you cannot understand one, PM a staff member.

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