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SirHansford

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Friday, 20. November 2020, 18:38

Another Balancing question

Please correct me again, if i am misunderstanding..

Player A has a 13 year old 185 toon on his 13 year old account with 1 billion gold.

Player B has a 13 year old 185 toon on his 13 year old account with 1 trillion gold.


if the ratio is going to be 3000/1 gold re-balance


Player A will end up with 333,333 k gold after change
Player B will end up with 3,333,333 mil gold after the change.

Player A will be balanced with 18 billion minimum.
Player B will be re-balanced with 18 billion minimum.

How does that make sense?

HINDER 185 Ranger / SirHansford 185 Temple Knight / ZiggyStardust 185 Specalist / Elephantalist 168 Elementalist

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "SirHansford" (21. November 2020, 15:40)

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ANGEL.

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Friday, 20. November 2020, 19:52

The fairness comes from the items player B could buy with 1 trillion.
Maybe this is the dev's logic ..idk.
Imo , if they wanted to make it fair and balanced - they should just do the rebalance simply with devaluation 3000: 1 and leave it this way. Player A would have X amount of gold, and player B - 1000X gold. The result - less gold in-game and everybody stays with their items. We had something similar in the past, but it wasn't such a disaster as the current situation.


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currykaran2

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Saturday, 21. November 2020, 00:22

From the balance itself (in complete contradiction to what they said); it seems like no time was spent actually thinking it through. This is the same argument as equality vs equity.

This patch leans towards equity, which is always unfair to a certain subset of players. Question it and you'll get the good ol' "Deal with it".

This is meant to throw everyone back on the street and hope for the economy to recover in a more healthy way. Keep in mind that this is possible, but not likely. Especially considering the true underlying problems.

It seems as if they assumed all legitimate rich players, along with illegitimated rich players were rich due to ill-gotten gold.

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SilentArrow

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Saturday, 21. November 2020, 02:16

I didn't see economy on Horizon all that bad. CSS running 45m, LSS 20m, HS 3m, HS 5 around 95m, and can easily make 30m one quick run of TOF. Do that 10 times, couple hours farming per day, that is (or maybe was) 250-300m. Farm on/off that is easy 1B per month. But... that means some would have to grind some hours, and sad some won't spend the time to farm the gold.

Now, other servers like "I"getting whacked 1/3000 and "E" getting whacked crazy 1/3.400,000.000 or something. Then agreed, pretty dang hard to farm those numbers. And royally sucks loyal toons been playing years, spending real life $$$ years, to simply have developers say "fu" with no discussion.

Really doesn't make sense trader was left open when announcement made. Shops/trader were bought out pretty dang fast! Those now holding expensive items can recoup gold over time. But sellers this week royally screwed.

What I think is being overlooked by toons saying "Too bad for you, you that spent years gathering your gold, now I get it, good for me", well, wonder what the prices are going to be come Tuesday after maint. For Horizon, CSS were selling 45m, my guess Tuesday we will see 500m+? Why not, buyers now have all that free gold, inflation right??? And once spending that 1-2B not earned, then what??? Even less purchasing power when inflation seriously kicks in.

Oh well, just like the year long Errorlog/DC/Kicked, I am sure developers have thought this through... SARCASM FACE...

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Saturday, 21. November 2020, 21:09

Yeah economy will definitely take a little bit to settle back in... buckle up :(

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Cryo

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Saturday, 21. November 2020, 22:12

And royally sucks loyal toons been playing years, spending real life $$$ years, to simply have developers say "fu" with no discussion.
I do not see how, technically all gamigo is responsible for if you look at it from a business view, to make sure you get the amount of IC you buy and to make sure you get the item you buy from item shop and that the item works as it should. They aren't responsible, nor is it any of their concern if you choose to sell that item to others to earn gold, since they kept their end of the deal. So, in the end you still got what you paid money for.
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currykaran2

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Saturday, 21. November 2020, 22:28

And royally sucks loyal toons been playing years, spending real life $$$ years, to simply have developers say "fu" with no discussion.
I do not see how, technically all gamigo is responsible for if you look at it from a business view, to make sure you get the amount of IC you buy and to make sure you get the item you buy from item shop and that the item works as it should. They aren't responsible, nor is it any of their concern if you choose to sell that item to others to earn gold, since they kept their end of the deal. So, in the end you still got what you paid money for.
In this case resetting your progress for things (i.e. account level, affinities, weapons/armour) that were not directly impacted by IC purchases would be fine?

True but false.
Though there's nothing you can do to make the business refund your losses, it is still morally incorrect for them to do so.
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SilentArrow

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Saturday, 21. November 2020, 23:39

And royally sucks loyal toons been playing years, spending real life $$$ years, to simply have developers say "fu" with no discussion.
I do not see how, technically all gamigo is responsible for if you look at it from a business view, to make sure you get the amount of IC you buy and to make sure you get the item you buy from item shop and that the item works as it should. They aren't responsible, nor is it any of their concern if you choose to sell that item to others to earn gold, since they kept their end of the deal. So, in the end you still got what you paid money for.

Years playing the game you get very good idea in game gold prices for IC items. Players make informed decisions that item X sells for 1B gold, and real life decision to say spend $10 to get those items. Every week pretty much the same, maybe small fluctuations.

Items in shop or more likely trader from days before, a single forum post, and those sellers screwed over, their $10 real life $$$ for items now gone and worthless gold in return. You don't see a problem with that? Could have simply disabled Roy during maintenance, or return for sale items to owners BEFORE re-opening the servers. And $10 RL is nothing, some players for years have spent $1000s and a few $10,000+ for many to play for free, and scale of those buyers screwed greatly magnified.
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Saturday, 21. November 2020, 23:55

If I am understanding correctly, once we get our gold rebalanced if we are under the minimum we get the different added to meet the minimum. So if we end up over the min we don't get any gold added to our account but if we are under we get some gold added or do I have that wrong and we get the minimum added on top of our rebalanced gold.

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currykaran2

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Sunday, 22. November 2020, 00:27

If I am understanding correctly, once we get our gold rebalanced if we are under the minimum we get the different added to meet the minimum. So if we end up over the min we don't get any gold added to our account but if we are under we get some gold added or do I have that wrong and we get the minimum added on top of our rebalanced gold.


Example:If you meet the conditions for an 18b minimum (and it's 18b per character that meets that condition according to a GM's statement)
  • Minmum: 18b (Multiplied by the number of characters that meet that condition)
If you have 10t gold and you divide that by 3000, you end up with:
  • Gold before rebalance: 10,000,000,000,000
  • Gold mid rebalance: 3,333,333,333
  • Gold after rebalance: Minimum stated above
If you have 100t gold and you divide that by 3000, you end up with:
  • Gold before rebalance: 100,000,000,000,000
  • Gold mid rebalance: 33,333,333,333
  • Gold after rebalance: 33,333,333,333 unless the minimum posted above is higher than the number of gold mid balance
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Sunday, 22. November 2020, 01:19

Perhaps this is just Gamigo's way off slowly shutting the game down... :thumbsup:

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SilentArrow

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Sunday, 22. November 2020, 01:37

Perhaps this is just Gamigo's way off slowly shutting the game down... :thumbsup:

I have thought the same. They waited 6+ months to get rid of gold spammers (easy code change) and the Errorlog/Kicked/DC lasting for well over a year and nothing solved, seems like hoping players just go away...
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Cryo

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Sunday, 22. November 2020, 06:06

Items in shop or more likely trader from days before, a single forum post, and those sellers screwed over, their $10 real life $$$ for items now gone and worthless gold in return. You don't see a problem with that?
No I do not. Simply because gamigo has nothing to do with gold prices for items, they do not set them, they do not control them. All they do is sell you item shop items to use, that is it. Everything else is controlled by players themselves. If they choose to sell items for gold that is still on them.

In this case resetting your progress for things (i.e. account level, affinities, weapons/armour) that were not directly impacted by IC purchases would be fine?

True but false.
Though there's nothing you can do to make the business refund your losses, it is still morally incorrect for them to do so.
But they are not resetting your progress, nor level nor affinities. There is nothing morally incorrect to level the game economy for players.
LC USA is not the only server gamigo is running. So far from what I saw, all versions asked to have something done with the gold and economy and now they are taking a step, and according Vilya, this is just the first step. Everyone needs to stop looking at this from their selfish perspective and consider the bigger picture and how better this will be for both the game and the server overall.
If you carefully think about it there is literally nothing else they could have done to remove the gold influx. Everyone seems to talk about how they should have done something else, then how about you actually give suggestions what they could have done that would:
A: remove the excess gold from the server
B: Remove the gold without injecting more items into the game ( for example: adding IC items for gold would ruin the economy completely)
It seems as if they assumed all legitimate rich players, along with illegitimated rich players were rich due to ill-gotten gold.

It is a correct assumption though. Who is to say that the gold someone used to buy your items did not come from a illegitimate source?
That is a point of view you do not see which makes your replies very biased to your personal view. Who is to say all those "legitimately" rich players, did not get rich, because illegitimate gold was used to buy their items? That makes them illegitimately rich to. Taking things this way, it makes perfect sense to do this server wide.
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Sunday, 22. November 2020, 06:49

Quoted from "SilentArrow"



Items in shop or more likely trader from days before, a single forum post, and those sellers screwed over, their $10 real life $$$ for items now gone and worthless gold in return. You don't see a problem with that?
No I do not. Simply because gamigo has nothing to do with gold prices for items, they do not set them, they do not control them. All they do is sell you item shop items to use, that is it. Everything else is controlled by players themselves. If they choose to sell items for gold that is still on them.

Quoted from "currykaran2"



In this case resetting your progress for things (i.e. account level, affinities, weapons/armour) that were not directly impacted by IC purchases would be fine?
True but false.
Though there's nothing you can do to make the business refund your losses, it is still morally incorrect for them to do so.
But they are not resetting your progress, nor level nor affinities. There is nothing morally incorrect to level the game economy for players.
LC USA is not the only server gamigo is running. So far from what I saw, all versions asked to have something done with the gold and economy and now they are taking a step, and according Vilya, this is just the first step. Everyone needs to stop looking at this from their selfish perspective and consider the bigger picture and how better this will be for both the game and the server overall.
If you carefully think about it there is literally nothing else they could have done to remove the gold influx. Everyone seems to talk about how they should have done something else, then how about you actually give suggestions what they could have done that would:
A: remove the excess gold from the server
B: Remove the gold without injecting more items into the game ( for example: adding IC items for gold would ruin the economy completely)

Quoted from "currykaran2"



It seems as if they assumed all legitimate rich players, along with illegitimated rich players were rich due to ill-gotten gold.
It is a correct assumption though. Who is to say that the gold someone used to buy your items did not come from a illegitimate source?
That is a point of view you do not see which makes your replies very biased to your personal view. Who is to say all those "legitimately" rich players, did not get rich, because illegitimate gold was used to buy their items? That makes them illegitimately rich to. Taking things this way, it makes perfect sense to do this server wide.
Items in shop or more likely trader from days before, a single forum post, and those sellers screwed over, their $10 real life $$$ for items now gone and worthless gold in return. You don't see a problem with that?
No I do not. Simply because gamigo has nothing to do with gold prices for items, they do not set them, they do not control them. All they do is sell you item shop items to use, that is it. Everything else is controlled by players themselves. If they choose to sell items for gold that is still on them.

In this case resetting your progress for things (i.e. account level, affinities, weapons/armour) that were not directly impacted by IC purchases would be fine?

True but false.
Though there's nothing you can do to make the business refund your losses, it is still morally incorrect for them to do so.
But they are not resetting your progress, nor level nor affinities. There is nothing morally incorrect to level the game economy for players.
LC USA is not the only server gamigo is running. So far from what I saw, all versions asked to have something done with the gold and economy and now they are taking a step, and according Vilya, this is just the first step. Everyone needs to stop looking at this from their selfish perspective and consider the bigger picture and how better this will be for both the game and the server overall.
If you carefully think about it there is literally nothing else they could have done to remove the gold influx. Everyone seems to talk about how they should have done something else, then how about you actually give suggestions what they could have done that would:
A: remove the excess gold from the server
B: Remove the gold without injecting more items into the game ( for example: adding IC items for gold would ruin the economy completely)
It seems as if they assumed all legitimate rich players, along with illegitimated rich players were rich due to ill-gotten gold.

It is a correct assumption though. Who is to say that the gold someone used to buy your items did not come from a illegitimate source?
That is a point of view you do not see which makes your replies very biased to your personal view. Who is to say all those "legitimately" rich players, did not get rich, because illegitimate gold was used to buy their items? That makes them illegitimately rich to. Taking things this way, it makes perfect sense to do this server wide.
Most of your logic, in response to others, is very difficult to follow. I think for most, who has a similar perspective as you do, they are people who stands to gain more than they have to lose from the rebalancing... :thumbup:
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currykaran2

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Sunday, 22. November 2020, 21:08

But they are not resetting your progress, nor level nor affinities. There is nothing morally incorrect to level the game economy for players.
LC USA is not the only server gamigo is running. So far from what I saw, all versions asked to have something done with the gold and economy and now they are taking a step, and according Vilya, this is just the first step. Everyone needs to stop looking at this from their selfish perspective and consider the bigger picture and how better this will be for both the game and the server overall.
If you carefully think about it there is literally nothing else they could have done to remove the gold influx. Everyone seems to talk about how they should have done something else, then how about you actually give suggestions what they could have done that would:
A: remove the excess gold from the server
B: Remove the gold without injecting more items into the game ( for example: adding IC items for gold would ruin the economy completely)

It is a correct assumption though. Who is to say that the gold someone used to buy your items did not come from a illegitimate source?
That is a point of view you do not see which makes your replies very biased to your personal view. Who is to say all those "legitimately" rich players, did not get rich, because illegitimate gold was used to buy their items? That makes them illegitimately rich to. Taking things this way, it makes perfect sense to do this server wide.
Yes, resetting of gold is resetting of progress... How is that hard to understand?

A. You spend 10 hours farming for levels
B. You spend 10 hours farming for gold

You've spent 10 hours of your life to progress in the game, 1 is considered progress while the other is considered waste of time? You okay?

Here's another example:

A. Player A buys IC and uses it to buy XPB to level.
B. Player B buys IC and sells it to another player to buy experience boosters from a shop for cheaper than the IC comparative.

Same result, but one is considered okay while the other is not? Why is that not part of the rules then? Because both are considered totally okay to do. B is riskier but does not mean it's wrong to do. The player is however punished in making that choice because while A is morally not okay to take away, B is morally okay to take away? I'd say that makes no sense.

Again, you don't have the full picture as to why they're doing the update. This update doesn't affect me, so I'm complaining on behalf of others. The players that it's meant to target, you know... the ones with ill-gotten gold... they don't care? Why would they, because whats stopping them from obtaining more ill-gotten gold? And before you say "They have things in place for that.. they've already fixed those issues." No, they have not. They are widely discussed all over the god damn place and easy to do. The company was informed, not once, not twice, but multiple times on how to fix these issues and no steps have been taken for more than 2 years after descriptions about those exploits were provided.


So yes, suggestions were given. Suggestions were ignored as bias, and helpful criticism was taken as a bashing of the company and ignored.
This isn't the first update they have managed to ignore the underlying issue and attempt to fix something that requires another fix. I'm sure they'll make many more of these mistakes in the future.

And your argument about rich players becoming rich by obtaining ill-gotten gold... here's a little understanding to that situation.

1. Player A uses real money (US Dollars) to purchase in-game gold (LC gold) from an illegal source in a illegal way that goes against the rules of the game.
2. Player B sells items to player A (The items are sold at the going rate).

In this situation, player A gains an advantage while not benefitting the game (Normally in this case, a player would buy IC, and sell for in-game gold). This is wrong, this is called RWT and against the rules.
Player B however, has done nothing wrong. Hence why no player has been banned for legitimately buying items/selling items to a player who has ill-gotten gold. This is not wrong, this player made a normal trade as he would have with anyone else. He lost as much as he gained, otherwise known as a fair trade.

What you're proposing is that everyone vouch for their income... lol... Apply that to real life and see how well that works. You likely have laundered money in your wallet right now, doubt you'd like to give that in to the government.

Again, I don't see how I'm applying a bias to this situation... I've lost 0 money in this update, this update has no effect on me except a positive as I'll be gaining more gold than I had to begin with.
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Bran

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Sunday, 22. November 2020, 23:23

This update doesn't affect me, so I'm complaining on behalf of others.(he gotta cover his homies) The players that it's meant to target, you know... the ones with ill-gotten gold(yea those homies)

Careful Karan... they gonna delete your response too lol. You're not allowed to speak the truth


*removed due to violation of rules*
What truth u talkin about stalker?
If you compare US to ze Elysion ? We're kittens, cuz we've had way bigger problems in the past and we learned from it, so if anyone even tries anything as big as ze Elysion, they'd get hammered just by thinkin it in their brain, that's why our US problem was injected unoticeable and slowly so the little rats can't be caught…
Have you seen the rate that's gonna be applied on Elysion...that there is like those hoarders in murica and when there's that show where they come into a hoarders home and show to the world watchin and say: see people this is wrong… then they get everythin unneccessary outa the house and clean it and make it all shiny and tidy…

That's what we're gettin… :D

3000 rate towards 3 400 000 000 8o

Be nice(common sense:ON) and get real stalker! o.o
Check what not innocent and cuddly one wrote:
Rossy
The hate was real
I speak sarcasm as a 2nd language.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcENL_Vdoqw <---The best Walking Dead episode ever! :D

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Fulminar" (24. November 2020, 01:50)

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currykaran2

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Tuesday, 24. November 2020, 00:41

Ofc it doesn't affect karen, ask him how he got rich in LC... (his: "What you're proposing is that everyone vouch for their income…") 8o
What truth u talkin about stalker?
If you compare US to ze Elysion ? We're kittens, cuz we've had way bigger problems in the past and we learned from it, so if anyone even tries anything as big as ze Elysion, they'd get hammered just by thinkin it in their brain, that's why our US problem was injected unoticeable and slowly so the little rats can't be caught…
Have you seen the rate that's gonna be applied on Elysion...that there is like those hoarders in murica and when there's that show where they come into a hoarders home and show to the world watchin and say: see people this is wrong… then they get everythin unneccessary outa the house and clean it and make it all shiny and tidy…

That's what we're gettin… :D

3000 rate towards 3 400 000 000 8o

Be nice(common sense:ON) and get real stalker! o.o
Don't beat around the bush lol, say what's on your mind. It's almost cute that you believe you know something you're clearly clueless about.
Your mentality of "know-it-all" is almost amusing lol.

On that note, read every other post I've written thus far, and attempt to balance the knowledge in your mind with some of the common sense provided. You're a day 1 kiss-up, not a healthy way to live.
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