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MujharCarillon

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1

Dienstag, 4. Oktober 2016, 18:03

[Suggestion] New Game Engine.

Apologies, everyone, for bringing this up again, but since Gamigo now have a copy of the Last Chaos source code, the forthcoming Development Team would be able to finally do something, here. Even though it'll be a long term thing.

What I'd like is an in house DirectX 9.0C/Shader Model 3.0 game engine developed, for Last Chaos. Since people are still playing LC, it still needs to compete with other games. As stated, this is a long term thing, as the game engine still needs to be developed, and LC would then need to be recoded for the new engine. The good thing about it, is the fact that while the source code is being recoded to the new game engine, the Development Team will be able to fix all of the problem areas in the game, many of which, haven't been touched for years. And then to bring true balance to all facets of the game. Graphics wise, well, the game graphics can also be improved upon. But I don't believe it should be by all that much. For now, anyway.

Unfortunately, people, I don't know the hardware and Windows level, everyone else is using, hence limiting the DirectX/Shader Model systems to 9.0C and 3.0 respectively. If all past, present, and future, players were using Windows Vista or better, and are using hardware that's vastly better than the recommended minimum, then I'd advise using DirectX 10/Shader Model 5.0, or better. Or maybe DirectX 11/Shader Model 5.x.

A quick note, while closing. When Windows 7 came out, Microsoft backported DirectX 11 to Windows Vista. I assume that it came with an updated Shader Model system, as well. So if some people have Windows Vista, and say, 4GB of RAM, they would be able to buy a DX 11 compatible video card, for their system. I have an nVidia GeForce GT610 graphics card in my backup system, it has 2GB of VRAM, and it's DX 11 compatible. It's a low end card, though.

"Can You Dance Like The Crew? Can You Do What We Do? Check It Out When We're Through. And Don't Forget That Our Moves Are True."
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Exret

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Dienstag, 4. Oktober 2016, 19:32

No thanks.

The game has its specifics and it has its climate as it is + not everyone wants to upgrade hardware all the time. One of reasons many ppl keep playing LC is that you can start it on pretty old machine already. So for some game content changes - YES, but for anything increasing the system requirements NO

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MujharCarillon

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3

Mittwoch, 5. Oktober 2016, 03:49

Exret,

if the Development Team goes with a DirectX 9.0C/Shader Model 3.0 game engine, then no one will have to upgrade their hardware, just to run Last Chaos better. Apart from swapping game engines, all the Development Team would be doing, is fixing all of Last Chaos' problems and bringing true balance to the game.

"Can You Dance Like The Crew? Can You Do What We Do? Check It Out When We're Through. And Don't Forget That Our Moves Are True."

Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von »MujharCarillon« (6. Oktober 2016, 04:48)

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Surestrike

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Mittwoch, 5. Oktober 2016, 04:18

Well...that would get rid of that really annoying memory leak.

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MujharCarillon

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Mittwoch, 5. Oktober 2016, 11:46

Err, what memory leak, Surestrike? Or do you think that I'm the memory leak, or that my head has some screws loose....?

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Surestrike

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Donnerstag, 6. Oktober 2016, 01:27

There is a memory leak that after running the game for a while causes an out of memory error message. It is from what I understand an issue with the engine LC was built upon. The only way to get rid of it is move away from the engine version LC uses.

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MujharCarillon

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Donnerstag, 6. Oktober 2016, 04:29

I got that error a few times, myself, Surestrike. I hadn't known that it's because of the current game engine.

The current game engine is the Serious Sam engine, which uses DirectX 8.1 and Shader Model 1.3/1.4. Yet Last Chaos was developed to run on Windows XP as the minimum Windows platform. DirectX 8.1 and Shader Model 1.3/1.4 is Windows 98 and Millennium level.

The above information was divulged to us, when we were with the previous publisher, as I'd brought this topic up there, as well.

Right now, I'm wondering if there's any more issues/problems with Last Chaos, that's because of the Serious Sam game engine....

"Can You Dance Like The Crew? Can You Do What We Do? Check It Out When We're Through. And Don't Forget That Our Moves Are True."

Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von »MujharCarillon« (6. Oktober 2016, 04:49)

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ghost105

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Donnerstag, 6. Oktober 2016, 08:02

Well...that would get rid of that really annoying memory leak.
There is a memory leak that after running the game for a while causes an out of memory error message. It is from what I understand an issue with the engine LC was built upon. The only way to get rid of it is move away from the engine version LC uses.
LC is a 32 bit applications so it has limitations, you can increase your 32 bit memory useage to 3G:
32-bit: Use “bcdedit /set IncreaseUserVA” to increase RAM used by single application
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ghost105

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9

Donnerstag, 6. Oktober 2016, 08:16

That would mean rewriting the client, with a new engine.

Zitat

There is a memory leak that after running the game for a while causes an
out of memory error message. It is from what I understand an issue with
the engine LC was built upon. The only way to get rid of it is move
away from the engine version LC uses. '
LC is a 32 Bit application so the memory usage is limited, you can increase the memory usage to 3G, using bcedit command.
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MujharCarillon

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Donnerstag, 6. Oktober 2016, 18:08

We know, Ghost105. But some of the code is gonna change, anyway. Even if it's just because of bug fixing.

Also, my own Windows 7 can't find bcedit. And from what I've learned, both Windows 98 and Millennium weren't even designed to handle 512MB of RAM, much less anything more than that. And DirectX 8.1/Shader Model 1.3 and 1.4 were developed for them....

"Can You Dance Like The Crew? Can You Do What We Do? Check It Out When We're Through. And Don't Forget That Our Moves Are True."

Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von »MujharCarillon« (9. Oktober 2016, 10:54)

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ObtuseRecluse

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Samstag, 8. Oktober 2016, 04:15

I don't see the current game getting an updated engine, that's an insane amount of work and time sink. I would expect new content and bug fixes at most. Nothing drastic that overhauls the whole game like that. If they wanted to go that route it would be better to just make a whole new game.

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Resuwrecktion

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Samstag, 8. Oktober 2016, 20:11

I would expect new content and bug fixes at most.
LUL NEW CONTENT IN 2016 LUL
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ObtuseRecluse

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Sonntag, 9. Oktober 2016, 03:02

I would expect new content and bug fixes at most.
LUL NEW CONTENT IN 2016 LUL
I know you are trying to be funny but now that barunson is out of the picture I have faith that gamigo can do good for the game. That includes new content too, yes.
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Surestrike

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Sonntag, 9. Oktober 2016, 03:37

tbh even new content is gonna take a while because they don't even have programmers yet...best we can hope for in the short term is bug fixes, tweaks to game features etc...not like that won't give them plenty to do... :D

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MujharCarillon

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Sonntag, 16. Oktober 2016, 16:00

Well, there's one thing the new programmers can do, and that's to go through the game's memory management code. If only to make certain, that it's working properly.

Ghost105 has given good advise, but since I'm using 2 64bit Windows editions (Vista on my backup system, and 7 Professional on my main system), I won't be able to use it. And I also get lag, freezing up, and stuttering, when I play LC. More pronounced, when I log on. I am wondering, if the game's memory management system is trying to squeeze as many files as it can, into as little RAM as possible. I did check, one time, and LC USA didn't seem to be using all that much RAM. Something like 448MB - 512MB worth, in fact.

According to the hardware specs, when we were with the previous publisher, LC USA is supposed to need a minimum of 512MB of RAM, for Windows XP, 1GB for Vista. I assume the same as Vista, for Windows 7 through 10 inclusive.

Vilya, if you're able to read this, Could you advise us on this, please? And if the game's memory management code does needs to be rewritten/updated, maybe support for the Physical Address Extension could be incorporated into it. If not the Physical Address Extension, then maybe support for the 64bit memory management systems, found in 64bit Windows. Particularly for those computers, that use 64bit Windows, and have 8GB of RAM, as minimum. Thank you in advance, Vilya.

Before anyone else says anything, Vilya is a qualified computer programmer, with over 20 years worth of experience, behind her. Just saying, as it'll be Vilya's knowledge and experiences as a computer programmer, that will tell her if this even makes sense, much less if it cam be resolved. Assuming she wants to respond....

"Can You Dance Like The Crew? Can You Do What We Do? Check It Out When We're Through. And Don't Forget That Our Moves Are True."

Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 2 mal editiert, zuletzt von »MujharCarillon« (17. Oktober 2016, 07:37)

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ghost107

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Samstag, 5. November 2016, 13:56

Zitat


Before anyone else says anything, Vilya is a qualified computer programmer, with over 20 years worth of experience, behind her. Just saying, as it'll be Vilya's knowledge and experiences as a computer programmer, that will tell her if this even makes sense, much less if it cam be resolved. Assuming she wants to respond....
I also have 10 years experience in computer programming(in C++/C#, mostly C++), and I'm also developing a game, and I can say one thing for sure is that developing multiplayer games is a pain in the head(multiplayer = data synchronization).

To get fix some memory limitations problems, the best way is for them to make a x64 build of the game client, and also the x86 build for current configurations. Since they use an old Serious Engine, and the engine is in x86 so they are limited to x86 architecture.

If you don't have enough memory, the windows memory management, will use the disk pagefile as extended memory, which will limit the memory of the application to read/write operations to the hard disk read /write operations(which are slow).

Having a 500MB memory usage is not much. but you should know the memory usage is shared with other processes in the PC, so the windows meomry management sometimes sends the application to the pagefile , to allow other processes to use the RAM.

For those who don't know what x86(is the 32 bit Intel architecture, the name comes from the old 8086 CPU family).

Having a new Engine that supports x64 architecture, and maybe cross
platform(not only limited to windows), would fix a lot more memory
issues, and platform dependency, but doing so it would require a lot of
work.
- Converting the game maps to the new engine(the current maps are made using Serious Engine world editor)
- Converting character models / skeleton animation / texture to the new Engine
- Writing the client logic to the new Engine
- Porting the code from The current to the new Engine
- Fixing Platform dependent code(a code written for windows x86 has some x86 limitations)
- Also Softwre developement life cycle

I don't think writing in a new Engine would benefit them much, speaking in resource would be allocated.

Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von »ghost107« (5. November 2016, 14:03)

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Vilya

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17

Samstag, 5. November 2016, 20:25

I am only a lowly Community Manager, I have nothing to do with the development (nor do I want to if I'm to be honest). I agree with ghost in that is a large undertaking and a huge pain in the...head.

I have complete faith in the development team that gamigo will build to be able to resolve the issues we have had plaguing us (some for years) and give us new amazeballs content. First, however, they must find these amazing game developers...so if you know someone have them apply!

Thanks for the suggestions! Keep em up...we are reading. ;)


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