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Crossing

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41

Saturday, 3. December 2016, 20:14

Also, lowering prices in IM won't change the fact that there are people out there sitting on trizillions of in-game gold.
But this problem still exists whether the IM prices change or not. I clearly said "not the only step". Part of fixing this economy LONG ago needed to include taking into account the immense amount of gold that is still stuck on player's toons that have just walked away from the game, as well as those sitting on their gold. Changing IM prices so that in-game prices of items drop as well could certainly be a reason for some, if not many, who are sitting on their gold to purchase these cheaper items, and spread their wealth. But, it's certainly not the only thing that would need to be done to account for this.

As for the new server, I played it for a few hours yesterday and I thouroughly enjoyed it. While it probably could have been done at a better time, I think new players would find it more attractive to start on a new server where the prices weren't off the charts and where they feel they might actually be able to afford something.
So these new players will be buying these items with the 5m they got from their 2 hours of grinding? 100m items for 1m? Lmao. As usual, you need a dose of reality before you make replies. Pretty clear from your statements that you haven't actually tried making coin in this game lately.
I never said that any of my statements above were aimed towards your comment, but since you insist.


1. Complaining about things that should've been done "long ago" won't help neither us nor Gamigo in the here and now. It's easy to act omniscient in retrospect, but it won't help anyone. Do I agree that something could've been done about the unbalanced economy sooner? Yes I do, but I am not pointing my finger at Gamigo as the sole culprit because they aren't the only ones at fault for the unstable economy we have on Initus server. Yes, I did notice that you said "not the only step", and I never claimed you said otherwise. I replied to a question that was being thrown around in this thread, I didn't quote anyone.

2. The people who have walked away with gold wouldn't come back just to spread their gold, no matter what the IM prices were. They really don't give a fudge about the game as it is, why would they care about the economy? As for those who are sitting on their gold but still play, they sit on their gold because they already got everything they need. Those who might sit on a lot of gold and good stuff aren't spreading that gold around because there is nothing on the market right now that they are in dire need of.

3. "... be a reason for some, if not many, who are sitting on their gold to purchase these cheaper items..." For the record, I have done this both ways. Both buying stuff that I didn't need in order to help new players, and selling stuff for low prices to help new players and the only thing that happens is that they buy my stuff and then sit down 10 feet away and try to re-sell them for double the price. A big part of the reason why the economy has become what it has is because people are greedy, and that can go for both the lower lvled players, and for the veteran's.

4. If you must know, I am working on getting some coin on Horizon right now. Now, I would like to know what kind of "reality" it is you're looking for here? I have been on Horizon for a few hours since it launched, I have seen that you can indeed make gold if you're willing to actually work for it. You can't compare the economies between the two servers. One has been running collectively for over 10 years and one was literally born yesterday. Of course items that go for 100mil on Initus won't go for 100mil on Horizon, at least not if the merchant wants to get them sold.

5. Also keep in mind that you need to be a merchant character to sell the majority of the Item mall items to other players, and that isn't going to happen anytime soon since you need to waste 100mil and 2k SP to become one. The SP and the lvl requirement isn't too big of a problem, but those 100mil will be. However, so far I've seen people make do with what they have available on Horizon. Yes, some of us have bought some smaller amounts of IC and yes, those people will probably be spearheading this new server, but isn't that kind of the point? Why would anyone buy any IC at all if you didn't gain anything from it? This is how Gamigo makes money off of this game.

6. As for my characters on Initus, yes I have in fact been making money through Boss Hunting, Ramslo Raids, participating in GM events and doing Akan runs. I have also been selling off my stocks to players who needed the stuff more than I did. I have opened affinity merchants and bought boxes to sell stuff from there to others as well. Did I become a billionaire by doing this? No I didn't, but I did make some money. Now, since it was "so obvious by my statements" that I haven't actually tried making coin ins this game lately, I'd like to know what you would classify as "trying to make coin" in the game?

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Crossing" (3. December 2016, 21:38) with the following reason: minor typo

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Surestrike

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42

Saturday, 3. December 2016, 23:29

One other thing I would like done to soften the blow allow pet armor to be sold back to npc...its not like its putting new money into the game and we are still loosing money on it, its only lowering the gold cost of those items...

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jsimpson

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43

Sunday, 4. December 2016, 18:11

npc pricing

just one word...."sux." in game pricing adjust by itself accordingly. lower pricing on dropped items from npc make no difference in gear being sold. less from npc drops just means that every1, high lvls and low lvls get less. so where is the benefit? ones with loads of gold it wont bother them. they can buy items cheaper, meaning their gold reserves will go much further. those who have played regularly to get to high lvls , this is just a slap in the face. once, yrs ago, ariea did the same thing. results; plyrs saw it for what it was. a way to get plyrs to buy more LC to sell IM items to make gold, and quit playing.

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divataroza

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44

Thursday, 15. December 2016, 12:01

The changes may "sux", but now getting the regular 100 000 gold from the Grinch book is actually a good reward =[

AP or not AP? (Now IC or not IC?) That is the question...
It is hard to fight armed with that when your opponent is armed like this:
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  • "Protonixs" is male

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45

Wednesday, 21. December 2016, 08:19

Although this opinion is not a popular one, it seems this is a step in the right direction from the Gamigo team.

While explained at length by myself in a previous thread, to have and maintain a healthy economy, the total currency in circulation needs to be regulated. The US and many other countries used to have the Gold Standard, which admittedly was a bad idea. We now use fiat money in the US, but it is still regulated in by things such as population and annual GDP.

The required regulation of currency is needed to achieve one simple mathematical formula in which Currency Created <= Currency Destroyed. Without an increase in population or overall domestic output, there is no reason for the total amount of currency in circulation to increase. It should either stay relatively constant or decrease if inflation is an issue (which it is my friends).

View gold sales at an NPC as well as gold drops as currency being created and introduced to the game.
Currently, there are fewer circumstances in which the gold is exiting the game.

You could look at this problem very simply as follows:

There are two doors to a building. An entry and an exit.
Currently, we can assume that there are an infinite amount of people trying to enter and then exit our hypothetical building.

The entry door is much bigger than the exit door. More people are entering the door than being allowed out of the exit. This causes a pile up (traditionally referred to as a queue) inside of the building.

We can assume that the building is our in-game economy. The people entering are the equivalent of gold being created (through gold drops and NPC sales). The people exiting are equivalent to gold being removed from the economy (anytime money is given to an NPC for any reason). If, as we assume, there is a build-up inside of the building because people are being allowed in at a faster rate than being allowed out, the build-up represents the inflation (the devaluation) of currency.

When one person enters the building, they have 1/1=100% of the value of the building's contents. Assuming equivocal values among people, when 100 people are now standing in the building, each person is effectively worth 1/100=1% of the entire value. Hence, with 100 people in the building, the relative value of each individual has been reduced. (Hence, devaluation) (To argue that people cannot be devalued is to miss the point -- people are representative of currency in this example and currency can be devalued)

The way to stop the infinite devaluation (build up) of people inside the building can only be accomplished in three ways: Decrease the number of people wanting to enter the door, decrease the size of the entry door allowing the exit to filter more people out, causing less of a build up inside, or increasing the size of the exit, allowing a faster departure.

In this example, decreasing the number of people who want to come through the door is irrational as it implies decreasing the demand for gold.

Decreasing the size of the entry door is indicative of what Gamigo has done -- decreasing the speed in which people (gold) is allowed into the building (economy). This effectively allows more gold to exit relative to gold entering, decreasing or slowing down, the "build up" or devaluation of currency.

The third way, which is the topic of a separate suggestion thread of mine, is an expansion of the exit door. This is any way in which players are incentivized to spend more money at NPC's for whatever purpose.

While seemingly not a popular opinion, I believe I see the logic behind the decisions of the Gamigo staff.

Rather than dwell on the negative, we ought come together to find ways in which we can decrease the size of our economy's entry door, or widen the exit, because a devaluating buildup inside is bad for everyone.

Thanks as always,

Protonixs

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Protonixs" (21. December 2016, 08:28)

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46

Wednesday, 21. December 2016, 10:39

The NPC changes might not be so bad of an idea, if other things had been brought into line along with it, for example, unlocking Affinity (and the stuff in their shops) will now be stupidly expensive. There's also the major elephant-in-the-room of the Merchant ability, the sheer gold cost of that now we're getting less than half the gold we used to, combined with skill and other costs, makes it completely impractical.

I do sincerely hope other aspects of the game are altered to reflect the lower amount of gold that will be flowing, otherwise, you'll end up with the same problem of newbies being scared off, not by the cost of items in players' shops, but by the cost of getting vital skills!

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Surestrike

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47

Friday, 23. December 2016, 04:16

The NPC changes might not be so bad of an idea, if other things had been brought into line along with it, for example, unlocking Affinity (and the stuff in their shops) will now be stupidly expensive. There's also the major elephant-in-the-room of the Merchant ability, the sheer gold cost of that now we're getting less than half the gold we used to, combined with skill and other costs, makes it completely impractical.

I do sincerely hope other aspects of the game are altered to reflect the lower amount of gold that will be flowing, otherwise, you'll end up with the same problem of newbies being scared off, not by the cost of items in players' shops, but by the cost of getting vital skills!

Thank you! You hit the nail right on the head...This won't change the despair new players feel when they enter the game because they will have the same proportionate amount of gold before the changes...and the costs will proportionately become higher because they have not changed forcing players to look to sources outside the game like IC or other nefarious methods.
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This post by "AnotherUser" (Monday, 26. December 2016, 10:04) has been deleted by user "Scimitar" (Wednesday, 22. March 2017, 23:23)

divataroza

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49

Tuesday, 27. December 2016, 07:09

My previous 2 posts in this thread were deleted - no reason given, just removed. As long as I can say there was nothing in them that was against the forum rules. I posted my experience related to the NPC price changes. Everyone that is 175+ can duplicate my observation, so no secrets reveled. I have seen posts moderated to comply with the rules, but most of the times there was a reason stated about the changes.
May I know why a simple observation that 3 runs in lab with the Christmas blessing will earn my toon close to 50 mil was removed from this thread?

AP or not AP? (Now IC or not IC?) That is the question...
It is hard to fight armed with that when your opponent is armed like this:
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The1AndOnly

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50

Wednesday, 1. February 2017, 16:50

gold drops "cash" and items "npc"

its really not easy to make gold / cash ingame anymore sure it is possible, the problem is that the gold drops seems to have been reduced of how often u get it and the amount to cash farm (without npc items) used to make 150-250m a hour grinding no pots in same spot as i do now and only get around 20m cash drop same lvl same location.
and npc items we all kno is kinda a waste of time ive tryed improve gold (get gold to game) by killing useing luckyspell book and lucky scrolls and haveing a friend pick up and npc it all (by all i mean everything from jewels eggs panflute too armors and what not drops) and they makeing 45/58m a hour npcing.. while we are in party witch is around 15m from gold cash drops since the lucky spell book is on, so like 30m extra is what u get. i kno this is not considering being the best location but it used to be like 600-700m cash a hour doing this. the gold made from trying to make it is pretty much not even suplying the price of the drop stuff u pot, the items are the highest trade able items and attack speed was permanent 4 with haste guild light and yellow punch for more attack useing old 180 ramslo xbow+28 i kno dura would kill faster but this kill rate keep the location out of monsters they dident respawn fast enough. so there really seem to be something wrong as we kno there is plenty of gold on server.
sure i guess but look into account who got that all gold and do they even spend it to have a steady gold flow ? answear is no. u can use countless days to see higher value items move (sell) for cash moste deals now seems to be done in trades or people just lowering price so much that to it would be a shame not to buy it.
i fell like this is a serious issue to the game as new people cant get anywhere without ic and if they would like to spend alotta ic sure but they will never really get any items of others ingame as their ic items armors and weapons they make cant trade due to the item bind useing masterstones. and ic items really doesnt sell at any rates where its worth to try becouse there is no market for items as no1 buying couse of the gold (cash). if the gold cash drops and items values would be improved id see it as people buying ic to get what they want faster still buy it and even more of it couse it would be easyer to sell and the people who love grinding gold farming and such would be able to make the gold to buy what they would like = gold flow to game more players would stay since they wont fell as used by the cash they would need to use to start out. this game really doesnt get u anywhere without gold or ic. back in the old times when i first started it was hard.. i made sin and started plvling to make my way up dident use cash to play this game and i think i made it pretty well far up between the people useing cash in even big amounts, would be awsome to see it posible to starters now too. and get lc to be great once again.
i could keep on going about my thoughts just though id share and try hold back a little so people might even read and reply.
hope to see some gm response and this issue looked into.
i allso kno this game is to provide gamigo money witch is made by selling ic to players but with less and less players the income of running the game gets to little to have it worth being run.

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This post by "AnotherUser" (Wednesday, 1. February 2017, 22:18) has been deleted by user "Scimitar" (Wednesday, 22. March 2017, 23:23)

Surestrike

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52

Thursday, 2. February 2017, 01:53

Well...clearly there is not enough gold being dropped in the game for the normal player and particularly the non IC buyer. If the npc prices get lowered by the same percentage and some useful everyday items arrive at the npc at prices that are half of what people are typically merching for then that might help... I am not really sure what the target is for all this so its hard to say what they are trying to accomplish and when it is accomplished or if it ever will be, so its kind of hard to just go along without thinking your getting...umm taken to the cleaners... On the old server it certainly does not look good for the new guy...If I was new I certainly wouldn't start on the old server but, that basically draws everyone away from the old server leaving those with a lot invested in it without a market and with no one selling the items they want and certainly not enough people to merch things to raise cash...not a lot is making sense to me now...people will have less gold and hopefully prices will drop but, even if that happens it appears we will still be in the same place just smaller numbers...

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This post by "AnotherUser" (Thursday, 2. February 2017, 02:47) has been deleted by user "Scimitar" (Wednesday, 22. March 2017, 23:23)

Surestrike

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54

Thursday, 2. February 2017, 06:14

I noticed the new items in game today some are nice and some are still missing. Here are some questions I have.
There is a pet trader in mondshine yet it carries only the lowest level items(except for the pet armor) Why?
The pet trader in Tairen only carries the short term targets. Why?
If you want more armor available to players why not put 75-77 set and the 85-87 set in Egeha armor merchant because really, who is gonna go drop hunt for them now...Heck limit them to green gear if you want...
Interesting choice of items in armor trader in higher lvl worlds LOL no complaints there except for a questionable price or 2
Potions...it starts off good with progressively better pots as the world gets higher but seems to stop in merac. Keep it going.
There are some other ideas and questions I will share as I think them through.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Surestrike" (2. February 2017, 06:26)

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Thor

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55

Saturday, 4. February 2017, 05:04

simple explaination to all your doubts about the new NPC change-- cash for gold is on the way!!

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Surestrike

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56

Saturday, 4. February 2017, 06:00

and so is the keron thing perm or was that a goof up?... just thinking of all I did to open that shop...

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Vilya

Community Manager (en/es/it/pl/ru)

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57

Saturday, 4. February 2017, 16:54

Hi,

In an effort to align all servers with the same items, all items which one server might have been missing were temporarily removed for review of necessity. Some of these items will get returned once the value or necessity is explained and reasons given for their use.

Keron Scroll Items happened to be one such item (I believe it was RU who did not have them). We have explained their use in full and are awaiting a response to our request to get them back in game.

If you find other items which might have been removed that had a value or importance (other than sentimental), please let us know and we can add these items in with the reason they should remain a valid item.

Thank you again!

Vilya
Community Manager EN/PL
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This post by "AnotherUser" (Saturday, 4. February 2017, 19:41) has been deleted by user "Scimitar" (Wednesday, 22. March 2017, 23:23)

Surestrike

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59

Saturday, 4. February 2017, 23:06

Well they did have value to me because I could use them on Ramslo and various other boss mobs to help keep from getting koed so easy when I am on a toon without a lot of hp... however, they are highly annoying when it comes to pvp. Perhaps you could make a change there...

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divataroza

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60

Sunday, 5. February 2017, 05:57

What I would like to see is the merchant NPCs in Mond and Tairan selling fast acting HP and/or MP potios with greater healing/mana effect. On a map where most of the mobs can deal damage by the thousands Great Healing Pot with its 750 HP over 15 seconds just does not cut it

AP or not AP? (Now IC or not IC?) That is the question...
It is hard to fight armed with that when your opponent is armed like this:
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