Last Chaos Forum

Quoted from "currykaran2"

However in a MMO, no one understands the concept of balance better than the players playing it.

*barney raises glass meme- true story*


In every game there's this thing called a diversity, current "elemental system" did improve the classes balance in a way that any class can do PVE easy now. clerics... elementalists...


Now, aboout pvp balance, its a what? serioous sam 2 engine? 15 years old ?

I've got a feeling yoou want some improvement, but a type of a graphic improvement aaand numbers which scale depending on class, crowd control.


Dear Karan*, *removed* they'd have to remake the whole game on a better engine, with better graphics, etc...


Only thing I'd remove is the silly cleric buffs which increase attack, which are actually debuffs cuz we got lvl 2 elemental jewels, and those buffs give lvl 1.


Now, more aboout divesity, yoou mentioned 5 rogues are OP... well, get some new friends, soome oother 5 high lvl random rogues, and ask them to help u in a siege, so, in other words, make some friends.

what you're actually *talking* about is population, rogues are fine, we need assassins in game, clerics are fine with their 30% heal of max HP base (and u got 2 skills with what? 2 secoonds CD when u refoorm all the cd seals), TKs with 200k hp are fine, make an exranger, get lvl 5 ign, goo on a siege, get +30 set, dura wep, try to kill a +30 armor set TK who has 200k hp and is being healed by two 185 clerics who are spamming heal with 50% mp reductioon gloves.

You'd need a few witches to spam stone on those 2 clerics and on that tk to debuff them, or sleep em, but they'll cure the sleep with the owl pills...


I could give u an ample of examples of siege fights. BEEN THERE, DONE THEM... balance is not needed except the silly cleric buffs(actually lvl 1 elemental defense debuffs) which are friendly buffs but they screw u up.

instead of talkin so much aboout balance, work on the population of players, redirect those great billions into shaping new players, inserting desire in them to lvl fast to 185 and join sieges, make a guild, get on i2, or i5 or wherever they show up, be their guardian, help them with advice, tell em to lvl to 11, give them a 5+15 wep, they're cheap to make now. this is not message just foor u, its for anyone reading this, that's how you'll actually help the game, I tried, i've done my share of helping, i still help sometimes whenever i see some1 in need in world chat, i cant read minds of those who dont write anything, I jewel newbie gear with cc3-5 and c3-5 and aventurines, and get them three 60% cd accessoories and jewel those too...


every game has tanks, healers, asasassins, mages, sorcerers...

this one has too, and everyoone seen troough yoou in your post, you want the spec class to be unbeatable... well Karan*(2nd spot that was forgotten o.o), the world does not functioon that way

Hope you learned something from reading this

Quoted from "currykaran2"

The game needs a balance, I could care less if they remove the specialist class as a whole as long as they balance all the classes to be evenly matched (whether it's individually or as a team), because right now they're not.

I'll repeat again, game needs diversity, classes are supose to have weaknesses, there are suposed to be TANKS(TKs, TITANS), HEALERS(CLERICS), MAGES WITH CC (witch with sleep and STONE to remove skills and archwiz with the AOE root, NS with root- both rooots have no cure..., SORCERERS (to entertain the rogues with their high evasion), ASSASSINS (which can farm lvl 5 ign in 3 minutes on i3 in raid and coome back and TWO HIT the TWO NS that you say cant be killed, and then the ASSASSINS can camp the SPAWN and NOT let them reach top of the pyramid)


YOU CAN'T HAVE ALL CLASSES HAVE SAME POWER, THEN LETS DELETE ALL CLASSES AND JUST MAKE ONE CLASS WITH ALL THESE SKILLS, and those who play in California with 0 ping will win every time cuz u got 300 PING froom india and I got 250 PING from Europe. Why yoou think aveti can true sight any rogue before they can move from their spot where they went invisible, and the rogue has haste for faster invis animation. use a brain.

Quoted from "currykaran2"

If I could get people to join the game after telling them to make an ex-rogue because they're the only class viable to do PvP atm... it'd be a surprise to anyone. There are sooooo many factors when it comes to team play that are simply negated by a few simple things. 80% of crowd control skills are useless against someone with condition owl pills. Few classes that are based upon skills have skills that simply take too long to cast and usually die before the animation is complete.

u can get people to join the game, yep, leveling froom 1-185 never been easier, it took me 5 years to lvl a toon to 165 back in those other days… when u needed like 20-30k expb from 90 to 165, when pbi was 10 mill … I could, again, give you an ample of examples of the changes

you say you Know everything aboout specialist? ha ha (that's my answer too yoou)
you didnt play specialist at its highest peak, when evasion was monstruous, when we had 100% cooldowns on skills, when I would spam meteor skill oon people and no1 could kill me…. those were some really fun times, I was a beast,
playing specialist now is a choice(not really a good one if yoou ask me, I've tasted the specialist when it was the best), like a choice to play TK, get 200k hp on it, find 2 cleric friends and go oon a siege, find 2 ex rangers to guard the clerics, 2 witches to sleep any enemy exranger attempting too kill the clerics, cuz u just cant simply kill a cleric as fast as u can kill any other class on a siege, you need diversity in your team to win a siege (WHEN ENEMY IS AWARE THERE'RE EXRANGERS GUARDING THE APPROACHING ARMY, THEY JUST WON'T JUMP OON FIRST PERSOON THEY SEE AND TRY TO KILL IT, WELL, THEY'LL TRY ONCE, AND DIE, IF THEY'RE STUPID THEY'LL KEEP COOMING BACK AND DIE OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND LOSE THE YELLOW NAME) people learn from mistakes, not all but if they got a brain, they'll wait at crystal...


there was a point in the game where we had 100% resistance allowed in the game, everyone who played witches stopped playin that class, then they realised resistances can't be set to 100%, and that's why we're here at 80%

Quoted from "currykaran2"

So all in all, that was your try at invalidating a post by stating facts that simply don't exist.

Obviously you've never been to a siege where owl pills to cure sleep didn't exist and a guild of witches showed up and witches perma slept the whole defending guild and won the siege cuz there was no cure foor sleep back then... situations exist, I've been here from start untill now... that's why I can say the things i say and no1 will say i'm wrong when it's the truth...

I won't say something tht ain't true in here. I'm an honest man o_o


p.s. aboout the 2 ns giving u the problems, there's no cure for root from NS, NS CAN OONLY ROOT ONE PERSOON AT A TIME, ALSO, they HAVE TOO ACTUALLY CLICK ON U TO LAND IT, while archwizard can just pop an AOE root at crystal and stop anyone who's trying to absorb it without targeting anyone, that's another pain in the ass on a siege you never experienced, its about tactic, its about camping the spawn of the defending guild and not letting the people who can do root, pass to the stairs, its about having cannon fodder to keep them busy...

Im wondering, if there was a cure for root for ns, what would you complain about then...

Quoted from "currykaran2"

I've been playing for the last 2 years and have not seen you step into a siege, so for you to claim "you've been there and done that" ... sure, you've been to a siege where people were playing the classes we're asking to get a retouch. Come to a siege now with your best buds and try to take it. I will show you how impossible it is. Apocalypse has held DCS for months, and can do so simply because 2 people play NS. If 2 players can impact gameplay like that... what makes it a community event?

I don't see what the issue is....2 opposing players are more than enough to keep the NS down, also you can always farm cures for Cop and use them.
You cant expect to take siege with 2-3 people.

Quoted from "Bran"

I'll repeat again, game needs diversity, classes are supose to have weaknesses, there are suposed to be TANKS(TKs, TITANS), HEALERS(CLERICS), MAGES WITH CC (witch with sleep and STONE to remove skills and archwiz with the AOE root, NS with root- both rooots have no cure..., SORCERERS (to entertain the rogues with their high evasion), ASSASSINS (which can farm lvl 5 ign in 3 minutes on i3 in raid and coome back and TWO HIT the TWO NS that you say cant be killed, and then the ASSASSINS can camp the SPAWN and NOT let them reach top of the pyramid)


YOU CAN'T HAVE ALL CLASSES HAVE SAME POWER, THEN LETS DELETE ALL CLASSES AND JUST MAKE ONE CLASS WITH ALL THESE SKILLS, ...

I don't want to ruin ur parade, but do u really realize mage class doesn't include only witch and archwiz, neither knights- tk or healers cleric...
You saying everything is fine with the classes and they don't really need balance when half of them them are broken?
All it was about team play????
If you believe so, then I dare you to go to siege with a regular wizard, elementalist, royal knight, archer and anything else besides the popular scenario you are referring to. As you said - get some friends who play the unpopular toons and go get the siege. Best of luck!

well..
so from what i can just think of in my big brain witch Arent loaded with lc.
archers… broke skills delay and sheesh.. dmg trash.. siege? nogo.. sry
cleric.. their fine. really no offence their allright they need fix their buffs.. the "buff" that actualy dbuffs… thats just bad..
temple knight.. their reflect needs a rework in my opinion and their dmg would be fine.
Royalknight.. well i dont hornestly remmeber seeing any of that class even play the game besides 2 guys who likes em but they kno their useless toon to play for pvp/siege. their allright for grind average mobs NOT bosses..
spec.. their debuff... just long element change on attack element is their stone skill.. makes it 100% useless.. that SHOULD be fixxed besides that over all their okay.
Elementalist.. ye enough said about this in the past. but for people who doesnt kno. their broken in about every way posible. as their never gotten looked into. so it seems.
please go check out post made by dynamicpineapple about that class.
NS.. this class really is only for one use in siege. and only thing their used for is to perma cop multiply people at sieges... hornestly need a rework on that skill change it into a snare like thing
arch witch. thier okay id say
arch wizz.. well as for cop.. well i say their ok if said that all other issues on other classes will be fixxes would be a bigger player base doing pvp meaning the arch wizz cop skill would be rather way less usefull as u cant target. and their easy to kill. - their allso fun to grind with.
witch.. well.... sleep.. stone.. and decay.. spam able this needs a rework.. sleep last to long and to damn usefull in any scinario stone can be anti by acc. and jinarpill so its fine. Decay debuff element defense and allso make target skills fail.. this as for how much effective it is has to be reworked. a witch allso do REALLY high dmg and are by far some mean.. bags of evilness..
then now regulare wizz..
are there even any left on the server / game ? this is 1 of the toons / classes that been totaly forgotten in all this new stuff.
just woaawww.. yea they need looked into.
rogues.. reg rogues are ok as reg ranger goes.. but yea.
assasin their not worth playing at all -->
then we just overlook the so op class here.. ready. so ive played rogue the entire time i played this game ive allways had 1 or more of them.
so lets get started EX sin.. was my faverite toon to play sadly they implented stage 2 of the element info. but only to reg hits. skills where left out and so many things about this was over looked for all classes..
at element stage 1 i went ex ranger. as for element changes. and yea. their OP if their buffed.. but try fight 1 without haste their really not that great.. cure their capsul debuff.. people overrate them just because their easy to play cheap to build and still able to really be savage..!
well their skill cd. time is junk garbage and ough i hate that.. same for ex sin btw on that.. and they barely have skills to use =(
so yea as it is for pvp.. i havent played my rogue for years... as moste of u all kno because i do think its broken and it is really no fun when u kno how it should be.
for these all new little rogue fella's yea =D have fun but beliveme.. u will get bored of it. id recomend every1 who make a rogue for this all to make another toon instead or u will end up quitting for years.. about every1 went ex ranger,, and where are they all.
back to classes.. so yea. titans..
titans omnumnum =) their awsome really Warmaster is awsome i see peopl who have this class all enjoy em and their fun to play with. where is fader? =(
Highlander?? another 1 there.. yea useless.. only good for attack speed on soul,, besides that this toon... its a relic on this game forgotten. and yea.. :-( broken!

so about all this.. alot of people build their toons for tank only.. alot of the toons in mention instead of all eva.. try hr and instrad of all hr try eva XD
those classes with element skills like rogue and healer knights needing element crystals to cast them.. not fair.. seriously i tryed it out on a baby rogue i got that skill so fun BUT!!! those crystals.. their history.
i think on a personal not people all got the wrong idea on build well.. not all.. but cant say some class is bad.. u cant expect to defend siege or take a siege.. by saying all toons should be able to go and just stand on example throne in mcs. and not get killed cause "YOU" build it full eva and full lvl 15 jewels..
try hr and run around make yourself a hard taget thats what rogues does.. but all ns's tk's ns's just sit 1 spot dont barely move around besides to try dbuff or cop.. cause their a tank.. well guess what STOP talk rogues down..

allso want a balance look into how stupid elebuff is.. 100 200 300%.. thats far to much allways been... and where a reason all classes got their dmg output nerfed.. and their allso not legit on sieges or channel 4.
should be 10 20 30% or 25 50 75% since pve and pvp is so stupid with this 1 pet..
allso about ignition id rather see it do like 10 20 30 40 50% buff on dmg rather then 100 200 300 400 500
and should work while u do skills aswell past the ignition lvl2..

balance is not only classes.. but does any1 here besides me realize that... we our toons got nerfed base dmg (attack) once element info where added and again with elephants ?!?!? if not wake up..
and allso where allber even ever reworked for this ? as we cant use pets on ch4 or in alber as far as i can think back no they dident implent those changes to alber mobs. meaning classes without element dbuff will never be a toon u will want to grind with there since.. too damn slow.. and u make about 5-8x more profit in tof a hour on a lvl 50 toon then in alber on a 185 toon.. tof doesnt need pets to do that either. and if a gm thinks im wrong.. look up my account past 12 days see gainz from tof a hour and gainz on alber hour rate..

btw this is if u understand it all about balance.
ive made post about some of all this in the past tho.. but....... BUT!! i dont think no1 care's about it.


allso wont say that every1 is wrong this is my opinion. and i am tired about nothing positive done here for years.. yea elementlist easy to grind.. due to ele buff and 1hit reg hit everything.. this is sooo stupid... i miss the times when 1 kill would take about 6-10 hits or 2-3 skills to kill.. allso we did get more xp of the mobs back then =D

allso about your bla.bla..
there is no cures for COP and an NS can COP as many as he likes not 1 at a time but about 7- and with haste and good reforms / acc.. he or she can keep em cop'd.
allso if their smart it is posible for that ns to make from respawn on siege def to throne with the buff where u cant skill or dmg them. on another note allso able to do it even that buff is not existing anymore all they gotta do is respawn and insta cop the killer and just run up... lol... seriously dont think you guys get the point about that issue on how thatll work its to damn easy.

besides u want balance it gotta be done from square 1 as mention'd i agree on that.
it has to be done!
as i see it make skills have stage 2 elements.. buffs as dmging skills. that would atleast solve somewhat the biggest unfair issues for moste major players. and rework cop so it doesnt reset counter on siege that would solve another problem to how unfair it actualy is to have an ns to just do that 1 dumb thing allday long

Quoted from "The1AndOnly"

there is no cures for COP

Actually there is REquires a bit of farming but you can get it in game fairly easily.

Why do these kind of threads always devolve into complaints about Cop? I mean, I hate it as much as the next guy, but it's starting to get a bit tiresome.

Regardless, even assuming you have farmed enough of the cure to last you through a siege, the problem with Cop isn't that it immobilizes you, it's that it instantly cuts off any sympathy gain from the crystal at DCS. It doesn't matter if you cure it after that or not, you've still lost anywhere between 1 second to 2 minutes and 59 seconds on Crystal Sympathy, which is the real reason people hate Cop so much. It's still annoying at MCS just by merit of being a debuff that locks you in place, but that isn't as big of an issue if we could just get more people to attack. Sieges are supposed to be guild battles, they aren't supposed to be taken by 1 to 3 people on their own, as much fun as it is when you manage to do so.

It has been suggested on other threads that Cop should be altered so that it freezes the Crystal Sympathy Timer instead of instantly resetting it, and personally I still think this would be a nice change.

Quoted from "unavailable"

Actually there is REquires a bit of farming but you can get it in game fairly easily.

the cure from alber ?
id sure like u show me it works =D
because i got over 400 of them and NO they dont work for cop
tested. alber cures cant be used when copped.. so please get your info straight.!

Quoted from "Crossy"

Why do these kind of threads always devolve into complaints about Cop? I mean, I hate it as much as the next guy, but it's starting to get a bit tiresome.

Regardless, even assuming you have farmed enough of the cure to last you through a siege, the problem with Cop isn't that it immobilizes you, it's that it instantly cuts off any sympathy gain from the crystal at DCS. It doesn't matter if you cure it after that or not, you've still lost anywhere between 1 second to 2 minutes and 59 seconds on Crystal Sympathy, which is the real reason people hate Cop so much. It's still annoying at MCS just by merit of being a debuff that locks you in place, but that isn't as big of an issue if we could just get more people to attack. Sieges are supposed to be guild battles, they aren't supposed to be taken by 1 to 3 people on their own, as much fun as it is when you manage to do so.

It has been suggested on other threads that Cop should be altered so that it freezes the Crystal Sympathy Timer instead of instantly resetting it, and personally I still think this would be a nice change.

i can only agree… but it has to be dealt with. but cop Arent the only issue as i did put up in that long text i added. BUT and i hate but but but…
but anyway.. there is no cures for cop. who ever told u that or others is wrong unless they changed stuff witch i havent heard off anyway i am willing to test it right now.
the cop still stops clock and can stop the entire fight if its vs 7 attackers just cop em all and then let 1 free at a time to get killed by other defenders.. 2 ns's can do 14 attackers.. add it up.. lol this aint even fun for anyone.. just total abuse same for sleep and stone timer why on earth sleep gotta last like what seems to be half an hour? make it 2-5 secs ? cd some what long (still usefull) and stone timer down to 5 secs.. i mean u get stoned your pretty dead anyways and if u want to excape u can cure sure.. but timers on some skills.. their far to long and witches got great benefits of their skill timers.. and low cd

ehh ups.. not to good at this quote thing.. hehe twice ?? dont kno how that happend sry for that

Quoted from "The1AndOnly"

the cure from alber ?
id sure like u show me it works =D
because i got over 400 of them and NO they dont work for cop
tested. alber cures cant be used when copped.. so please get your info straight.!

Not talking about alber cures.
Anyway I do not see cop as an issue, I see balance in general as an issue here, solve that and that solves the cop problem some people keep having.
Not to mention removing the timer reset from cop would completely break the class.

If you remove what COP can do at siege then an NS becomes almost useless at siege...

Quoted from "Surestrike"

If you remove what COP can do at siege then an NS becomes almost useless at siege...

If they remove the DCS absorb timer reset from cop, NS literally would become the most overpowered class in the game for sieges.

Quoted from "unavailable"

If they remove the DCS absorb timer reset from cop, NS literally would become the most overpowered class in the game for sieges.

Hence why I didn't say to remove it. I'm well aware that if the Timer Reset was removed and not replaced by something else, people would just reg an NS in a defending guild and perma cop their friends at Crystal, since the target is untouchable for the duration of Cop. Hence why I brought up the suggestion that the Timer should freeze while the absorber is coped. NS and Archwiz would still be useful for stalling for time, but it wouldn't be able to singlehandedly defend a siege on their own.


Admitedly, I haven't been to a siege for like 4 months or so, so I don't know what they look like at the moment, but I assume since people keep complaining about the same things that nothing has changed.

1. Can you, The1AndOnly, edit your text, so we all can understand what are you talking about.
2. Like I said before, this topic is born dead, and here's one reason, why - it's now going heavily towards siege!
3. It should not be about siege "only", but any time, and any level PVP!

And I also mentioned the mathematician genius, seems like, I was correct again.

Really, I'm not rude to you or anybody else, I just have already put some thought to it before,
and I don't see a touchable fix for it.
To encourage, I see it - as a very nice thing to do,
but as you said - it's easy to point "something" it out,
and as "someone else said", including me - it's unbelievable hard or even impossible to fix.
I really don't want to explain myself, what, where, and or how and when...,
those day's are over to me, I either agree or disagree.
Of course, I might sound selfish, but that's how I see it,
and I don't see any reason to "paint a colorful picture" that everybody likes/dislikes.